Let the games begin!

[Horsefeathers!]

Rocco isn't even here yet and it's already started.

Every morning, I do my banking. I buzz through the drive thru with the previous day's deposits and the lady at the drive up window always ooohs and aaaahs over whichever dogs are in the car. She ALWAYS asks what's new as in do I have any new dogs coming in or going out? She's a nice lady and seems to just love the fact that I always have a carload of dogs. Sooooo when she asked me this morning about "what's new," I mentioned that I'm going to pick up a dog on Saturday. She got all excited and said, "oh! another Poodle??" (since that's what I usually deal with) and I told her, "no, a Doberman." Her mouth dropped open, her eyes widened and I swear she lost her breath as she stammered, "Oh, I HATE those dogs! They're so mean!! I've never met one that wasn't just vicious!" What's funny about that is there aren't that many Dobermans around here at all, so I don't know where she's meeting all these vicious killer dogs.

So Bully lovers, listen up. I can now join you in the ranks of a "bad dog" owner. I just need to learn the secret handshake and where to pay my membership dues and I'll need my secret decoder ring. *snicker* :lol:

[courtnek]

So Bully lovers, listen up. I can now join you in the ranks of a "bad dog" owner. I just need to learn the secret handshake and where to pay my membership dues and I'll need my secret decoder ring. *snicker*

show up with Rocco in the car..the "vicious doberman" in a wheelchair may make her change her tune....kill them with kindness (and obvious learning) yep....

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[courtnek]

I feel left out!! I dont own any "obvious" bad dogs (although most people would think twice on approaching Freebee in "one of her moods"...)

I DONT get a decoder ring or secret handshake!!


:lol: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:


8) 8)

[Guest Anonymous]

Actually at one time some breeds such as dobe's did have a "bad" reputation for a reason. I was reading through an old breed standard for the AKC...for Dobe's and some other breeds it was normal to have them muzzled for conformation..they could be very bad at one time. They were bred as guard dogs and were actually breed for that purpose. Now a days at the dog shows most of our breeds are not bred for any purpose except just looking like the breed standard without the hassle of the working purpose. They are basically watered down dogs, or you could call them designer dogs as they really are not bred for a purpose any more...just looks.
I read some where about an issue which arouse with the border collie dog club...they were out raged when the AKC wanted to have the BC in their kennel club (it is recognized now) but, at that time the bc club was very upset as kennel clubs will get rid of the hard wired drives of the breed. For instance the border collie has a hard wired behavior of eye stalk...this can and will drive a normal house hold crazy...this is some thing which also can be bred against...which the kennel clubs will do.

So, some times a persons fear is generated by what they see on the TV, some times a person hears bad things on the news, or they know of some one who was attacked...for instance I wouldn't trust a Chow Chow as far as I could throw one or an Akita..but, I have to work hands on with them and they can be unpredictable due to the fact that their body language can be alot harder to read than other breeds :-? I also don't trust Lhasa's either.

I have owned several Dobe's, for myself they have always been the sweetest most loving of dogs...of course they are not really bred for their orginal purpose any longer. My Dobe's would crawl up on any ones lap, and they always had their face stuck to my face....if they could have crawled into my skin I am sure they would have. They were no better of a guard dog than my border collies were.

[Horsefeathers!]

[quote name='doggylover']...for instance I wouldn't trust a Chow Chow as far as I could throw one or an Akita..but, I have to work hands on with them and they can be unpredictable due to the fact that their body language can be alot harder to read than other breeds :-?
I'm so glad I'm not the only one who feels this way. I have an inherent dread of Chows AND Akitas. I think you have to speak their language, so to speak, and I just don't. They make me uncomfortable and they know it, so I avoid them at all costs. Call it discrimination, but I outright refuse to groom Chows (though I do a select few Chow mixes) and I won't go near an Akita. Talk about an unpopular opinion (I probably should have posted this in the "unpopular opinions" thread). :oops:

My feelings are based solely on my interactions and observations of these dogs in my area. I'm in a really rural area where Chows are overbred and a dime a dozen and are most often outside dogs tied to something with very little social interaction. The few Akitas I've met were owned by people who had no business with them. The only dog to ever be banned from our county was an Akita that attacked a cop. The breed wasn't banned... just this dog. I'm sure nice Chows and Akitas exist.... just not in my rural area. I'm sure that with the right owner, these dogs can be fine companions, but I've not met anyone in my area with one that was responsible enough to own it. A groomer in my area who will groom ANYTHING that walks through her door has been attacked by two different Akitas on two different occasions, once requiring hospitalization.

I also don't trust Lhasa's either.

On the other hand, I do speak Lhasa quite well and love them for their aloofness and wariness and independence, though overbreeding is indeed making them snappy and outright aggressive. I do feel a "bond" with this breed, especially owning one that no one else understood well enough to be able to handle (4 homes by 8 months of age), and owning 3 altogether. Just as with the other breeds, they aren't for everyone, for sure. They look so much like a Shih Tzu that people expect them to have that same bubbly, happy personality. They're often disappointed to learn otherwise. It's what happens when people buy dogs based on their looks (Akitas are gorgeous, no doubt, but think about some novice dog owner buying one for its looks... same with Lhasas and, heck, many of the terrier breeds).

Courtnek, you can borrow my decoder ring. :lol:

[drjeffrock]

Kira's reaction to your comments ----> :( :cry:
LOL, I am just kidding around with you guys. HF, Kira says next time you are in Los Angeles she will be happy to attack you with love and kindness. :wink:
Good luck wiht Rocco, and maybe your bank teller will have a change of heart once she sees him. :angel:

[courtnek]

OK I'm going to soapbox.

ANY dog can be BAD, and ANY dog can be GOOD...It all depends on the owners. I have personally "broken" quite a few dogs of bad dominance behaviour, where they got above themselves and thought they were running the show....these are the types of dogs that cause problems, for groomers, vets, etc. A dog comfortable with his position in the pack, will look to his alpha for how he should behave around others. Chows, Akita's
Shepherds, Rotties, Dobies, they are ALL guarding breeds. How they behave with others depends on how their owners rais, treat and TRAIN them. TRAIN is the key word here. My Freebee knows she is submissive to ME at all times. Take her to the vet, and she will get hyper and growl, if not controlled. The vet is not "part of her pack". I only have to tell her to
"CHILL! NOW!" and she will. She has been told by her alpha to accept the stranger. WHETHER SHE LIKES IT OR NOT. These dogs need a strong hand, a dominant hand, to make them tow the line. Freebe is not a guarding breed, just full of herself. Guarding breeds need a STRONG alpha in their lives. And some people sinply should NOT own them. They dont have the force of will necessary to make them behave.

(Laurel's a wimp! the vet loves her - :lol: )

[Horsefeathers!]

drjeffrock napisał(a):

Kira's reaction to your comments ----> :( :cry:
LOL, I am just kidding around with you guys. HF, Kira says next time you are in Los Angeles she will be happy to attack you with love and kindness. :wink:
Good luck wiht Rocco, and maybe your bank teller will have a change of heart once she sees him. :angel:

If I'm ever lost and find myself in Los Angeles again, I would LOVE to meet a nice Akita like Kira. You appear to be a very responsible owner and able to handle such responsibility. Around here, it's usually not the case. I hate to seem like I'm down on the breed as a whole. Just the ones around here owned by people as some sort of trophy.

[Guest Mutts4Me]

Aww, Jeff, tell Kira I love her :)

My chow mix almost always looks happy, even when she's barking at someone. Maybe somethign about the tail curled over her back and the pricked ears, I don't know.

I don't think chows and akitas are something that a stranger should ever trust really. Just like I'm quickly learning not to trust the big cats here. Especially the lions. The tigers and cougars'll pretty much tell you what they're feeling, but the lions tend to just have this unreadable look about them... very few exceptions.

Anyway, I hope you guys meet a good Akita some day, with a good owner who deserves to have one of them.

Until then, I hope Rocco wins over hearts :)

[Horsefeathers!]

Courtnek, I see GSD's and Rotties and such every day of the week and most of them are fine. They don't make me nervous at all. There's just something about Akitas and Chows. Their body language is entirely different in that they often don't give the warnings another dog might. I'm really good at reading dog body language, but I'll be the first to admit that my weakness is mostly with these two breeds. I don't read them well at all :oops: . Also, with me being so uncomfortable, they know it and it puts them on some sort of super alert. I'm not confident enough with them to gain their trust. Just not a good environment for either of us. These are two breeds that I'm just not interested in butting heads with, or challenging. Then again, I do believe it's because they are typically (around here) owned by people incapable of raising them right. That's what makes me so leary, I believe.

[Lokipups]

In all honesty, Chows aren't my favorite breed either, in the 80's, they made up the majority of my training clients :-?, they seemed to be the dog of choice for all the up and coming yuppies. Chows, who are really more like cats than dogs, were bred by the Chinese to be war dogs originally, and they were never considered to be cuddly companion pets even later on. Now translate that to todays society with BYB's producing them by the thousands with no regard to genetics, and people buying them because they give you the warm fuzzies just looking at them :roll: , and you've got a serious attitude problem on your hands.
And Jeff, tell Kira I love her too :grins: , I kinda like Akita's, especially because of their attitudes! In the right hands :wink: , they're a great dog.

[Guest Anonymous]

I did come on quite strong putting down the Chows & Akita's... :oops:
I am not really putting them down as a whole breed...I just hate working with them, and in my area there are not many mentally stable ones around...I feel the same way HF does....they are hard to read. When you are alone working with them it can be scary and I also am a little intimidated by them...especially a Chow....most dogs will keep their tail down when frightened or fearful, not so with chow's...some dogs will move their ears forward if dominant etc. or put back if fearful...not Chows. Its just not worth it to work with these dogs...Id like to continue working for a while longer. Lhasa's are bought by people who don't know what they were orginally bred for...as HF stated they look alot like a Shih Tzu but without the same personality. Lhasa's were bred to be guard dogs...boy, do we have alot of surprised customers when we tell them this :lol:
We do work with alot of Lhasa's and most are sweet (especially the owners who practice NIFIL policy-we have all of our clients trained to train their dogs this way :lol: ) we have a big enough business that we can be picky about our clients...let the new groomers tackle the chows, akita's and Lhasa's...perhaps HF I could fly them all down to you???
Oh, I am so sorry for this...but, another breed I do not work with is the American Eskimo dog...I personally have not met a nice one...sorry to all you AED owners :oops: they have a peircing bark which shatters the ear drums and the ones around here are snappy and turn into little demons when you have to make them do some thing they don't want...they are about the only breed we automatically muzzle as soon as it hits the bathtub. Perhaps we just have a bad batch in my area?????

[Guest Anonymous]

we have a big enough business that we can be picky about our clients...let the new groomers tackle the chows, akita's and Lhasa's...perhaps HF I could fly them all down to you???

HF, I meant to state all the Lhasa's to send to you...not meaning that you are a new groomer....its just you mentioned you like Lhasa's.

boy that came out wrong... :oops:

[Guest Anonymous]

*Deleted*

[drjeffrock]

Kira thanks you guys for your comments. 8)
I feel you guys though. If I was a groomer, it would def. take a lot of courage to start grooming Akitas I wasnt familiar with. And I do agree it can be a bit more difficult to read an Akita's body posture. Kira was def. well socialized from the time she was brought home. My gf's mom used to run a day care, so there were always a million kids running around her house from day one.

[Guest Anonymous]

So Bully lovers, listen up. I can now join you in the ranks of a "bad dog" owner. I just need to learn the secret handshake and where to pay my membership dues and I'll need my secret decoder ring. *snicker*

Actually, membership is free and the decoder ring will be sent out, all you have to do is pay S&H. Their is also a handbook on how to handle all the idiots around you that will be accompanying the ring.

Before I was ever introduced to a REAL pit bull (APBT, gamebred) I wanted either an Akita or a Rhodesian Ridgeback. I have never thought of Akitas to be very aggressive. I thought they had to be incredibly smart dogs to be used as not only war dogs but also as babysitters. And they are soo beautiful. My aunts neighbor (who also has the Delorian from the movie Pretty Woman) had the first Akita I was really around a lot and I fell in love immediately. He was soo sweet.
I feel completely different about Chows. I dont trust them one bit. They are way too territorial and it doesnt even have to be their territory.

Jeff, give both your pooches a big :kiss_2: and tell them that someday the breedism will end.

[Guest Anonymous]

hmmmm, I think back in "the days" most dogs were used as baby sitters. Newfoundland dogs are well known for their gentle behavior with children. When I was a child about 40 years ago we used to be left alone with our husky mixes and border collie...our parents trusted those dogs and as children out and roaming we were allowed to go and do any thing as long as we had those dogs. My mom before me always had collies for companionship...so back in the day before inbreeding and show breeding we perhaps had much more mentally stable dogs which were trustworthy.

[courtnek]

I tend to agree with that. I dont know i it's becasue of bad/inbreeding, or because mom was always home with the dog, and so it was somewhat socialized better. back then, dogs got walked to school with mom and the kids. Dogs got left outside of stores while mom shopped. dogs knew al the neighbors, thru interaction. everyone had dogs, neighbors got along, all the dogs interacted.....the only "bad" dogs were the ones that killed sheep.


different world, today.


:( :(

[Guest Anonymous]

I do believe you are right courtnek. The dogs back in the days of old were allowed to come every where with us. We went into a store the dog waited outside...trips and vacations, the dogs always came with us. When we kids were playing ALL the neighborhood dogs were playing with us...no dog fights, no kids being mauled :lol: :wink: the dogs came to our friends houses to play with us...they were just always "there" with us...they were not treated as dogs of today are...they were like childhood shadows...I don't know one kid when I was younger who didn't sleep with their dog instead of a teddy bear :wink: I remember my first teenage party at an outdoor beach, my dogs came with me (huskyx, border colliex and shepherdx) and we all had a great time...the dogs had "street sense" and lots of social smarts...some thing our no a day dogs are lacking.
I guess I just mentioned about inbreeding etc. because I don't recall ever seeing or knowing any one who owned a purebred when I was a kid. The only people who had purebreeds where rich and their dogs always seemed flighty and mentally unstable...even our vets always stated back then that the dogs were much easier to deal with and when I was a kid they used to refer to purebreeds as being some what "different"... :lol: :wink:
I can't remember exactly now...but, I do remember we always referred to purebreeds as flighty as kids.

Just to make sure here...I am not putting down purebreeds its just a revalation of my childhood :lol:

[Guest Anonymous]

*Deleted*

[drjeffrock]

[quote name='"Hmmmm"']

Jeff, give both your pooches a big :kiss_2: and tell them that someday the breedism will end.

Done! 8) Those knuckeheads sure loves kisses. :P

[courtnek]

I agree with that. Another point about the "old days" - dogs were treated differently. They werent treated like children, they were dogs. Back in the days of "closed architecture", when rooms had doors to shut them off from other rooms, to conserve heat, the dog was allowed in the kitchen to sleep. since it was kinda warm. they werent allowed on furniture, it was too expensive to replace. They didnt sleep in peoples beds. They always ate after the people, because leftovers was a big part of their meal.
Without realizing it, people were demoting their dogs to bottom of the pack status. With all of the dominance cases I have had to "break", in many years, all of them were caused by spoiling an already "dominant-breed" dog. How did I break them? Reinstated the pack rules. I still train all my dogs this way. "I am Alpha, get used to it" is the bottom line.

Many people disagree with this. But in the over 30 years I have had, trained, and "broken" overly dominant dogs, I have NEVER once been bitten. To me that says something. Maybe there is something viable about pack rules. It's the only rules they know, after all....

[courtnek]

to add to this - Freebee and Laurel got into it tonight. Freebee did something to piss Laurel off...HIGHLY unusual, since Laurel was very timid, but getting better day by day. I axed the pack rules, and gave her priveledges that I normally wouldnt, to "raise" her in the pack heiarchy and make her less afraid. It works both ways. For the first time, she stood up for herself and didnt let Freebee walk all over her. Freebee can be very annoying. She knows she answers to me, but she wants to walk on any other animal around. Laurel turned on her, and they were snarling, snapping and potentially could have hurt one another. The kind of "show of attitude" that would frighten most people. They did NOT hurt each other it was all show. On ONE COMMAND from me, the alpha, (KNOCK IT OFF!!!!! **NOW***!!!!) they both stopped, laid down, and licked each other. They havent sparred since. I truly believe that the pack rules can, well, rule...with multiple dogs. I never had to touch them. The anger in my voice was enough.