Guest Anonymous Posted May 24, 2004 Posted May 24, 2004 I have seen on the other boars, primrose, that you are not welcome. You enjoy putting down pit bulls and think BSL is a good idea, huh? You are nothing but an instigator, and it seems the other boards feel the same about you. I am going to ignore anything you happen to post and hope others do the same.
Guest Anonymous Posted May 24, 2004 Posted May 24, 2004 [quote name='Hmmmm']I have seen on the other boars, primrose, that you are not welcome. You enjoy putting down pit bulls and think BSL is a good idea, huh? You are nothing but an instigator, and it seems the other boards feel the same about you. I am going to ignore anything you happen to post and hope others do the same. Let me explain (although since you have already announced your intention to ignore anything I say, it won't be to you, particularly) my position on breed specific legislation. I am against breed bans. However, bans of pit bulls, in particular, are happening all over the place and will inevitably happen many more places (everywhere, eventually, probably) if something is not done to curb the problems pit bulls have and cause. People who really care about pit bulls, as opposed to caring about irresponsible peoples' rights to breed pit bulls indiscriminately, understand that the main victims of the pit bull crisis are pit bulls themselves. They want to do something about it. My suggestion (and nobody really has a good reason why it shouldn't happen, other than that they want irresponsible breeders of pit bulls to be free to continue to breed pit bulls) is for the responsible pit bull community to support the enactment of laws calling for mandatory spay/neuter of all unregistered (AKC or UKC only) pit bulls. If this were enforced 100%, the pit bull crisis would stop pretty much dead in its tracks. Even if it were only sporadically enforced (say, when the owner of a human aggressive pit bull advertises the dog at stud, bragging about his "manstopping" qualities), it would be a totally positive thing, stopping SOME irresponsible pit bull breeders and not hurting a single responsible pit bull breeder or owner. Pit bulls would not be slaughtered in shelters by the tens of thousands. Some children would live who otherwise will die in the jaws of irresponsibly bred pit bulls. Responsible pit bull owners would not have to live with the very real prospect that their dogs will become illegal at any time and/or that their insurance will be cancelled. The pit bull community can complain about how "unfair" it is that they are targeted with such "breed specific" proposals, but the alternative to doing something like this is doing nothing and waiting for the breed ban to happen where you live and pretending you don't know about the thousands of pit bulls that are slaughtered in shelters and the thousands more that live short, miserable lives owned by horrible people who want dogs as weapons, either against people or other dogs. Personally, I think that pit bulls deserve better from the people who claim to care about them. primrose
Guest Anonymous Posted May 24, 2004 Posted May 24, 2004 odnarb napisał(a):primrose napisał(a):and illegal to have an intact pit bull over 18 months old who doesn't have at least a CD. primrose I personally think that is a bit harsh for this breed. There are several dogs that HAVE pulled it off. However, there are a lot of pit bulls that aren't mentally mature enough to enter the obedience ring at 18 months. Grant just turned three, and he is just now showing that he is actually mature enough to get it. At 18 months he knew the routine, but not in an even remotely serious situation :lol: *************** Well, probably requiring a CD before 18 months is "harsh." This is why I wouldn't have it be my primary standard. (I'd be happy with just getting the unregistered pit bulls out of the breeding business and impose stricter requirements if that didn't do the trick). And maybe a better way to do it would be to enforce spay/neuter of all unregistered pit bulls and if that doesn't solve the problem (people always say it wouldn't, although I think it would be a very, very good first step), then say that you can't BREED a pit bull who doesn't have at least a CD. That would not only get the worst dog aggressive (and, of course, people aggressive) pit bulls out of the gene pool because they couldn't get a CD, but would also get the vast majority of horrible breeders out of the breeding business because they would never, in a million years, do the work required to get a CD on their dog. When does Grant go back in the obedience ring, by the way? We want to hear reports. primrose
Guest Anonymous Posted May 24, 2004 Posted May 24, 2004 [quote name='mydogroxynli']Why wouldn't it be easier (and much more easily accomplished) to just make it illegal to own intact unregistered (AKC or UKC only, please) pit bulls? why, may i ask, do are you limiting to akc and ukc only? Sure. I keep asking people who object to this requirement to post some links to websites of responsible breeders of pit bulls who don't register their dogs with either the UKC or AKC. Nobody has ever posted a single link. This doesn't mean that there might not, somewhere, be a breeder who is arguably somewhat responsible who doesn't register his/her pit bulls with the UKC or AKC. But we haven't found such a person yet, so I am not going to worry too much about his/her right to pump out pit bull puppies. It is kind of like gun laws. I could own a bazooka and be totally safe and responsible about it. But, hey, I don't have that right because lots of people who want to own bazookas will pose a threat if they do. Similarly, maybe somewhere there is an ADBA breeder of pit bulls who is responsible (although we haven't seen any examples, yet), but the vast majority are not, so I guess that person has to give up his right to breed ADBA pit bulls (or register his/her dogs with the UKC, which I gather is sometimes possible). After all, the alternative is to figuring out systematic ways to get rid of bad breeders is that all pit bull are subject to breed bans. primrose
kendalyn Posted May 24, 2004 Posted May 24, 2004 I've heard about what you do on public forums, primrose. please leave. I know I am also not going to respond to any further postings.
Guest Mutts4Me Posted May 24, 2004 Posted May 24, 2004 I don't want to argue, but I'd like to point out the fact that the APBT can't be registered with the AKC. I'd also like to breifly address the topic of "over the top" media coverage on pit bull attacks by recalling the huge mess in New York several months ago where a 3-year-old girl was mauled by a pit bull. Or so the headline said, though the body actually said she got in the middle of a dog fight in progress and got her face cut open. Oh, but wait, the next story says, it was actually a boxer. Although another story says it was an American Bulldog. But there may or may not have been a pit bull or pit bull mix somewhere in the basement where the dogfight/"mauling" happened, and that's good enough for a viscous headline, isn't it.
mnp13 Posted May 24, 2004 Posted May 24, 2004 Sharpeigirl napisał(a):Yes Pits do bite people, but so do rotties, GSD's, Golden's, Labs, heck any breed of dog can bite & possabliy kill a child. Just cause it's a pit it gets more covrage then say your neighbors out of control lab. When a short haired, square headed dog bites someone it is automatically a 'pit bull'. When a golden retreiver bites someone people immediately ask 'what did you do to that poor dog to make it bite you???' When a short haired mutt on a chain bites someone it's a 'vicious pit bull attack'. In my city two pure bred pit bulls attacked a 60 year old man a few years ago while he was shovelling his drive way. He lost his arm halfway between the shoulder and elbow. In a subsequent interview he said that he did not blame the dogs, he blamed the owners. If anyone had a reason to hate pit bullss it was this man who has the next 20 years or so of his life to live as an amputee. The press is a MAJOR problem for pit bulls. 'Dog bites child' doesn't sell papers, 'pit bull bites child' DOES. They also usually forget to include details about the neglect that the dog is subjected to every day and the fact that the child was unsupervised. Most dog bites (70%) are by a CHAINED or FENCED dog. What parent in their right mind allows a child to approach a chained or fenced dog??? The press never does stories on the importance of personal responsibility. Michelle
mnp13 Posted May 24, 2004 Posted May 24, 2004 Anonymous napisał(a):I am not sure what you think would be accomplished by licensing breeders. What would be your criteria for granting licenses? Why wouldn't it be easier (and much more easily accomplished) to just make it illegal to own intact unregistered (AKC or UKC only, please) pit bulls? If that doesn't solve the problem, make it a requirement that any pit bull have a CGC by a year old to remain intact. And if THAT doesn't solve the problem, make it illegal to breed any pit bull that doesn't have at least a CD and illegal to have an intact pit bull over 18 months old who doesn't have at least a CD. So, according to you, all responsible pit bull owners should be punished because the irresponsible BYB's keep churning out junk dogs with bad temperaments? This is not a 'pit bull' problem, it is a problem with every breed. I think EVERY breeder should have to be liscenced. I don't care if you are breeding shelties or mastiffs. If you breed dogs you should have to pay for a liscense and a per litter fee. It would be easy to enforce, just go though the paper and check every person who has dogs for sale. BYB's are the source of the millions of dogs in shelters, not responsible ethical breeders. Ethical breeders could easily add the added fees into thier puppy cost, as someone who is willing to pay $1500 for a dog probably won't balk at paying an extra $50-100. No legislation should be specific to any breed. Strict breeding legislation would be great - for EVERY breed. Michelle
mnp13 Posted May 24, 2004 Posted May 24, 2004 sashagirl napisał(a):mnp13, I know you mean well, but this person is just trolling.. Trying to get a rise out of us... If you just ignore her/him/it, they will go away... :wink: DON'T FEED THE TROLLS! :oops:
Guest Anonymous Posted May 24, 2004 Posted May 24, 2004 [quote name='Mutts4Me']I don't want to argue, but I'd like to point out the fact that the APBT can't be registered with the AKC. I'd also like to breifly address the topic of "over the top" media coverage on pit bull attacks by recalling the huge mess in New York several months ago where a 3-year-old girl was mauled by a pit bull. Or so the headline said, though the body actually said she got in the middle of a dog fight in progress and got her face cut open. Oh, but wait, the next story says, it was actually a boxer. Although another story says it was an American Bulldog. But there may or may not have been a pit bull or pit bull mix somewhere in the basement where the dogfight/"mauling" happened, and that's good enough for a viscous headline, isn't it. *************8 When I say "pit bull," I mean pit bull type dogs. I dont' just mean American pit bull terriers, but also american staffordshire terriers. Also, since virtually every breed ban includes them, staffordshire bull terriers, although they are really the problem here. On the other hand, I am relatively certain that virtually every SBT litter in this country is already AKC registered, so they wouldn't be affected by my proposal, whereas they are threatened with extinction by the alternative, which is breed bans. The "parody" (and nobody has yet explained what is funny about it), talked about a scenario where toddlers KILLED a pit bull. I asked for examples of over the top reporting re pit bulls killing a child. There is no doubt that initial reports of dog bites sometimes get the breed wrong. (The presa canarios in San Francisco were reported to have been pit bulls in the very first reports--but it was quickly and decisively corrected). The pit bull community tends to see this as some kind of horrible conspiracy against them to malign their dogs. The reality is that pit bulls do a lot of damage to a lot of people and even when you just go with absolutely verified reports (as does Delise in her book), pit bulls are killing WAY more than their share of people. For example, Delise found 73 cases where mixed breed dogs have killed people. If you add in all the wolf/dog mix (another very problematic canid--and one that is banned many places) fatalities (23) as "mixed breeds," the total mixed breed number is 96. This is very comparable to the number of pit bull caused fatalities (90) alone. Since we know that about half the dogs in the country are mixed breeds, it is absolutely clear that, despite all the repetition by the pit bull community that pit bulls are not human aggressive, a lot of pit bulls are VERY human aggressive and pit bulls account for way more than their share of serious attacks. This is more than a public relations problem, folks. This is a real problem and if the pit bull community's "stategy" for addressing it is simply to bury their heads in the sand, the dogs they claim to love will suffer and they will lose their right to own the dogs. primrose
Guest Anonymous Posted May 24, 2004 Posted May 24, 2004 Im not reading that crap anymore but.... Someone PLEASE make it stop!!!!
mnp13 Posted May 24, 2004 Posted May 24, 2004 [quote name='primrose']When I say "pit bull," I mean pit bull type dogs. I dont' just mean American pit bull terriers, but also american staffordshire terriers. <snip> For example, Delise found 73 cases where mixed breed dogs have killed people. If you add in all the wolf/dog mix (another very problematic canid--and one that is banned many places) fatalities (23) as "mixed breeds," the total mixed breed number is 96. This is very comparable to the number of pit bull caused fatalities (90) alone. Since we know that about half the dogs in the country are mixed breeds, it is absolutely clear that, despite all the repetition by the pit bull community that pit bulls are not human aggressive, a lot of pit bulls are VERY human aggressive and pit bulls account for way more than their share of serious attacks. Wow, contradict yourself much? You are including pit bull 'type' dogs in your 'breed legislation' even though there are about TEN different dogs that fall in that catagory. Including pit bull mixes. Somehow you differentiate that from the 'mix breeds'. So, you have 10 different specific breeds AND mixes of those breeds and you are comparing those bite statictics with the bite stats from 'other' mix breeds. Yeah, sure that makes sense.... Michelle
odnarb Posted May 24, 2004 Posted May 24, 2004 [quote name='primrose']Similarly, maybe somewhere there is an ADBA breeder of pit bulls who is responsible (although we haven't seen any examples, yet), but the vast majority are not, so I guess that person has to give up his right to breed ADBA pit bulls (or register his/her dogs with the UKC, which I gather is sometimes possible). To get your ADBA dog registered with the UKC, all you need is a pedigree and for the dog to have no disqualifying faults. If it has those, the inspectors are required to pass them. When does Grant go back in the obedience ring, by the way? We want to hear reports. Probably in the fall. He has his first French Ring trail in August. I'm sure he will pull some stunt that will leave us the laughingstock at judges dinners for years to come. He's more mentally mature, but still kind of an idiot frat boy dog. The new pup coming this weekend will probably be mentally mature before Grant ever is. It wouldn't shock me if the new kid gets his CD first :lol:
KP Posted May 24, 2004 Posted May 24, 2004 [quote name='K'][quote name='Hmmmm']I have seen on the other boars, primrose, that you are not welcome. You enjoy putting down pit bulls and think BSL is a good idea, huh? You are nothing but an instigator, and it seems the other boards feel the same about you. I am going to ignore anything you happen to post and hope others do the same. GOOD POSTING!!!! I'll buy into that for a dollar! So would I.... infact I'd spend 100 just to shut her up for once. After a couple posts I just don't even read them anymore. Funny how her opinion is ALWAYS opposite of what the majority think. And by majority... I mean MAJOR MAJORITY. She is the only reason I left some boards before I even started because I was sick of her constant bickering and yapping against everything everyone had to say. It was always an arguement or debate no matter what. You couldn't just have a conversation it always had to be a debate with opinions flying everywhere. Didn't matter what it was... she disagreed. (Ahem... TROLL) Good grief get a real life... You have made it obvious everywhere you go that your number one goal is not to make a vaild point but to stir up trouble. For the love of god if you told her your grass was a beautiful shade of green she would say "get it right, it's actually a combination of blue and yellow" :roll: Get a clue, no one cares anymore what you have to say at any board anywhere for a reason... Please lock this rediculous thread...
Recommended Posts