Define "hoarder"

[Horsefeathers!]

I want objective and HONEST opinions. Am I a hoarder? My interpretation of hoarder is one who takes in more animals than they can adequately care for. I've read the stories of animals living in filth and squalor, overbred, malnourished, and all that stuff. That's always been my perception of hoarding. Have I been mislead? Are these only very extreme cases?

I'll tell you what has me so upset. I told my vet today (who is also kind of a personal friend as I work with him each day) that the Dobe people may be contacting him about Rocco (the Dobe we have been considering adopting). He blew me off by saying I don't need another dog and he called me a hoarder. He can't give me any other explanation but that I have so many dogs. I pointed out that each is cared for... from hip surgeries to abdominal surgeries, Devin's Adequan injections and high priced Atopica allergy medication, Fifty's emergency suturing, the high dollar crap prescription cat food that two of my cats eat, every animal is altered, we do ANYTHING this vet recommends as far as medical care and I've never once scrimped or complained about price. Some people put their resources into things like flying lessons (*ahem* my vet) while I choose to use my resources in animal rescue. If I were a hoarder, wouldn't I keep every single dog I've fostered? I'm rambling, I know, but my point is this- is it hoarding if I have the resources to care for as many animals as I take in? What he said next upset me most. He told me that hoarders don't know they're hoarding and they go around thinking everything's fine. I'm so upset. Am I a hoarder?? All of my animals are obedience trained, socialized (if not necessarily sociable), housepets, couch potatoes, and bed buddies. I thought hoarding meant living in horrible conditions. Now I don't know if maybe my perception is just all wrong. My vet was saying that the hoarder cases I mentioned are only extreme cases.

This really and truly hurt my feelings. I honestly need to know if my good intentions are all wrong. We've set a limit as far as resources go and we've never exceeded it. He never could give me a reason that he thinks I'm a hoarder other than just having so many dogs. He said nothing about their care, or any of that. I need a reality check. What's the difference in what I'm doing and, say, a hunting kennel with 20-30 dogs (not that I have that many), or a show/breeding kennel with that many dogs? I don't see him putting down the people with the kennel full of hounds that come in every week to buy a truckload of dog food, even though it's just the lady and her husband caring for the dogs. We aren't living in squalor with filth and debris. Of course, there are snark prints on the windows and dog hair on the furniture, but that's about the extent of any "damage."

My vet means well enough. He can be very opinionated and judgmental at times, so I'm not always really sure when to just brush him off, or take his advice to heart. He didn't think I had too many dogs a few years ago when he placed a very special needs old Yorkie with me. His reaction today when I pointed that out was that the Yorkie was a small dog and therefore easier to care for by default. Does anyone else think that's flawed logic? This dog had to be handfed, pooped (by hand), walked in and out, was blind and deaf and had to be accounted for every second. The Dobe is in a wheelchair... some special provisions needed, of course, but can it be THAT much more difficult? He thinks I'm biting off more than I can chew, but he can think of nothing bad to say about the care I've provided, and can't think of ONE incident where I've gotten frustrated with a commitment and bailed out. Why is he so opposed to THIS special needs dog when he's the one who placed the Yorkie with me??

Please, you guys be honest with me. If I am a hoarder, I need to know. No personal attacks, please, but I will certainly take into consideration any objective and honest input. I truly need to know if I'm paving a road to h*ll with my good intentions. I don't know what to think. :(

[Malamum]

If you can provide all the dogs you have with a good standard of living and also be able to give them all plenty of personal attention then I don't see what the problem is.

I know I personally couldn't manage as many dogs as you do but If you can then who is anyone to critisize.

[imported_Debbie]

:o I've always understood a "Hoarder" to be someone who takes in a lot of animals that they can't afford to keep properly.
I've always imagined them in houses of filth and the animals in poor condition, because the person can't afford to feed them or Vet them properly. :wink:
I really think your Vet was out of line when he called you that.......
doesn't he like your business ? You obviously take excellent care of your pets !! :wink:

[Lucky Chaos]

No way! You take excellent care of your dogs, you just happen to have a few more then the average person. I always thought of a hoarder in the same way as you, with 20 dogs or more, never getting individual attention, no vet care, usually not even fed properly and living in a digusting environment. If YOUR a hoarder then I wanna be one too, surrounded by many loved and well taken care of dogs.

[Queen Bitch]

Honestly, HF, though I do think you are absolutely off your rocker :wink: :lol: , I don't think you are a hoarder or have any sort of mental problems. As long as all your animals are well cared for and you can afford them both time/moneywise, I think you are perfectly fine.

[courtnek]

HF, Sweetie, GET A NEW !@#$%^&* VET!! WHAT DAMNABLE NERVE!!

you are providing a service, a home, a decent and loving place to stay, with good health care, good training, good socialization. You provide these abandoned, unloved and abused animals with the type of life they deserve. That's what rescue is all about...

Tell him the people I adopted my Foxhound from had ***35** hounds...
are they hoarders? or are they people doing what needs to be done for the welfare of these animals? for their health, benefit and future adoptability?

I am PISSED!!! Give me his number, I'll give him a BIG piece of MY mind, and he wont forget it....not in THIS lifetime....

:evilbat: :evilbat: :evilbat: :evilbat:

[Aonir]

I agree, you're not a hoarder! BUT, I must warn you, anyone can unintentially become one. I think THAT is what your vet is worried about. You already have a lot of dogs, he just doesn't want you to keep taking in more and more, until you CANT take care of them the way you already do. Money doesn't just appear ;) but dogs seem to lol

Just watch your budget and current dog happiness, if its high, NO. Your not a hoarder :) I think your great for wanting to take in the special need Dobie, and I KNOW you can handle it!

[Horsefeathers!]

EEEK! Courtnek, I still have to work with him. I lease the space in his clinic, so that's where I work. I'm trying to look at this objectively (as if I could) and think on it a bit before giving him a piece of MY mind. I was truly offended by what he said, but I was just wondering if he had a point and if I was just blinded by good intentions. The more I think about it, the more the hurt feelings are turning into anger. I really think that was a bit pretentious of him. Now I'm thinking how dare he tell me what to do with MY resources! I'm writing down some things tonight that I want to touch on with him (because I suck at speaking... the only thing I could do today was this>> :o ), not that it really matters what he thinks, but well, yeah, it does. He's known me for five years and I've been nothing but responsible (I believe). As a matter of fact, every single time someone comes through that clinic wanting to place a small dog or Poodle mix, guess who the clinic staff contacts?? Moi!

Malamum napisał(a):

I know I personally couldn't manage as many dogs as you do but If you can then who is anyone to critisize.

Actually, I think that's a lot of it. He pointed out that he has four animals... 2 cats and 2 dogs and, by golly, he KNOWS what a job it is. In other words, he can't/won't do it, therefore he doesn't understand how anyone else could. What he doesn't get is that he has a life outside of his animals. He has a wife, kids, social obligations, vacations, lots of activities he's involved in (like flying lessons). Our lives ARE our dogs. We do very little that doesn't involve the dogs. Our lifestyle is very different from the vet's and I reckon he just doesn't recognize that.

Aonir, that is a valid point, him worrying about me becoming a hoarder, but he didn't express concern that I might become one. He said I AM one. His whole tone with me was so incredulous, as if just considering it were ludicrous. My husband and I long ago set limits as to how many and what resources we could use and we've never exceeded it. Maybe I'm rationalizing. That's why it's good to have input.

I would just let it go, but I don't want HIS input to be the SOLE nail in the coffin that sinks this thing with this Dobe. I can live with the rescue's decision if they decide our home is a bit more than Rocco could handle (maybe it is... good reason to ask questions and think about it, aye?), but I couldn't stand it if I thought the vet screwed it up. If it comes down to it, I'll just tell him outright that, while I appreciate his "concern," it really is none of his business how many dogs I have as long as I'm paying my vet bill. I don't want to approach it like that, but if it comes down to it... The ONLY thing he needs to do is validate that I do indeed provide adequate care for my dogs, whether he thinks I have too many or not. I think the "too many" issue needs to be decided by the rescue, not the vet.

Thanks, guys.

[Malamum]

The rescue people need to decide if you have too many dogs for Roco to cope with, it's not up to your vet to tell them that you have too many full stop. :x :x I can totally understand your anger and frustration.

When pointing out to him why you are NOT a hoarder ask him how many hours a week he actually spends doing all his "extra stuff", make him really think about it and give you a number. Then once he has done that say well that's how many extra hours I have to give to all my dogs. Hopefully it will make him think of it from another perspective, because I'm sure you are right, he is thinking in terms of what he can or is willing to do.

[mydogroxy]

you are definitely what i would consider a hoarder. hoarders are people who cannot stop themselves from obtaining more animals even when they cannot adequately care for them. you have proven that you can indeed turn animals away (i mean not keep every single animal you come in contact with). you also take fabulous care of ALL of your pets. definitely not a hoarder.

bear in mind that most people are not comfortable with large amounts of animals. a lot of people will think something is wrong with a person who keeps more than a few pets. my family at times has gotten the "your house is a zoo" comment because people aren't used to so many pets.

it sucks that he hurt your feelings, but quite frankly he's a moron!

[Guest Anonymous]

Geez, HF, you crack me up!!
A hoarder is defined as someone who keeps a hidden "stash" for later use. The word has nothing to do with the condition you keep your dogs in.
The proper definition:
hoarder
n : a person who accumulates things and hides them away for future use

[courtnek]

hell, I've had people tell me MY house is a zoo, and I have 2 dogs and an antogonistic cat....however, they may have been referring to my son and his "hoard" of teenage friends who are always here....There's never less then 3 kids at a time here...Right now there are 7....

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Horsefeathers!]

Well, I'm in much better spirits today. Doc redeemed himself early this morning. He was all but waiting for me to arrive so he could apologize. He told me that he thought about it after I'd left and that he didn't mean things the way they came out. He said he was sure I was capable of doing it and knew I'd do a good job, but he was worried that I have so much going on... so many other dogs (really... caring for nine dogs is NOT as difficult as it would seem). He said he was just thinking that perhaps I wasn't fully aware of how much work it would be to take care of this dog. He said it is still a concern, but he didn't want me to believe that he thinks I'm incapable, or impetuous. You don't know how much better it made me feel to hear him apologize and say that. He said he was only expressing his concerns and giving me food for thought, but he just didn't mean it the way it came out. The thing is he really is a very well intentioned person (even though just yesterday I thought he was the biggest butthole on earth) despite royally p*ssing me off from time to time. He's just very similar to many men I know (and I don't mean this in an insulting manner)... he just spits things out first and thinks later about how it came out. Then he wonders that the big deal is ("you're upset because...?").

Anyway, he doesn't think I'm a hoarder and apologized all over himself for presenting it that way. I just accepted his apology and input at that point and left it at that. No need to carry it any further, but boy howdy, do I feel better. I was genuinely offended and hurt that he could have said that to me.

[Aroura]

Oh Horsefeathers, you have nothing to worry about... reading this post I was actually planning to reply that he probably didn't mean it like that, and he had your best intentions in mind etc, but then you, well he, took the words out of my mouth! lol, when people you know say something that offends you, often the best thing to do is to take a step back and look at the other possibilitys that they could have meant.

By my definition of hoarder, well I'm a hoarder, I'll grab animals left right and centre, I LOVE TO BE SURROUNDED BY THOSE I LOVE! That doesn't mean I don't care for them, but frankly I do hoard them, though only as many as I can look after!

I'm glad you had things straightend out :wink:

[mouseatthebusstop]

Well, I'm in much better spirits today. Doc redeemed himself early this morning. He was all but waiting for me to arrive so he could apologize

so I should think so too
maybe he needs you to keep room for any of his emergency placements