Can I rant for just a second??

[Horsefeathers!]

Ok, I already know I'm not going to win this and that I'm going to be wrong. That said, I'm STILL going to say it.

I have been gone all day to my friend's house (the one that's taking Fifty). With me were Fifty, Devin and Peanut. I got home this evening after dark. Now, when I come home, I park in front of the house. That portion of the yard is not fenced (behind the house is). It's usually pretty routine. I let Devin out of the car and set him on the ground since he really can't jump because of his hips and knees. Then I let Peanut out, then lead Fifty out on leash. At this point, Fifty is the only dog on leash. Peanut will always run right to the front door and Devin usually does, too. It's not quite routine for Fifty, so he's still leashed. Maybe I'm naive, but it just never crossed my mind that ALL my dogs need to be leashed ALL the time.

This evening wasn't so routine. Again, it was dark out and I started by letting Devin out of the car. Well, what'd I wanna go and do that for? These freaking children who have been hanging around under my front window and tormenting my dogs lately were (guess?) in my front yard under my front window. Well, being dark out, I didn't see them. Devin, however, did. Off he went and I had no clue what he was going on about. Then I heard the screams. These children sprang up out of virtually nowhere screaming bloody murder. Devin was hot on their heels. Of course, Peanut took to barking and Fifty thought it was a game and joined the ruckus. These children were screaming hysterically, I was trying to get Devin since he's the only one I think has bite potential, but being dark, it was hard for me to see. The little boy had a big piece of board and swung back at Devin. Well, I DID see that and went flying up to him and telling him to just "GO!!! GO!!! GO!!!! GET OUT OF HERE!!!" He was screaming, "I'm scared!" and me being the anti-child, I reckon, was screaming back, "WELL, THEN YOUR LITTLE *SS HAS NO BUSINESS DOWN HERE PEEPING IN MY WINDOWS AND HANGING AROUND MY YARD, ESPECIALLY AFTER DARK!!! NOW JUST GO!!!" I'm sure I said more because by then I was really upset and really "venting" (I react to fear with anger... call it a character flaw). By that time, I was actually about as hysterical as they were because I honestly thought Devin was going to bite them. This is not the first time I've caught them standing in my yard, peering in my windows, or "playing with" my dogs through the window, but it's the first time THIS has happened. Of course, had I known they were there, I wouldn't have let the dogs out, but the little sh*theads were trying to hide.

Of course, I know if Devin had bitten one of the kids, it would have been technically my fault since he wasn't leashed even though he never left the yard. Well, h*ll's bells, I reckon I really wasn't expecting someone's little stray young'un to be in my yard. It scared me pretty badly, but now I'm p*ssed off more than anything. I'm going tomorrow to talk to the parents for what good it's going to do. The little girl was here last week to use the phone to call 911 because her dad had pushed her mom down and put a gun on her (not to mention the 4-5 times a day she comes to use the phone just to chat). Nice family.

I know this makes me a real b*stard, but, ok, I do feel sorry for kids from broken homes. Still, my mission is animal rescue, not child rescue. I've been there, done that, gotten involved when I was fostering and basically had the government give me the middle finger. So, I don't get involved in the child rescue thing past calling 911 if an obvious conflict arises. However, I am responsible for maintaining peace at my own home on the range with my animals, so I'd really like it if people would keep their freaking kids home, or ANYWHERE else besides my front yard, peeping in my windows. It just makes me so unbelievably angry that *I* could have been charged with a crime and *my* dog destroyed had he bitten someone who had no business being there to begin with.

I know I may sound like a real insensitive a*shole right now, but I'm still too shook up to care. Kids hiding in my yard... maybe I'm expecting too much to expect kids NOT to be trying to hide in my yard when I drive up.

We go later this week to price more fencing for the front yard. I REALLY didn't want that fenced, but since you can't count on others to be responsible, what else is there to do?

DoG, I HATE this sh*tty neighborhood and moving is not an option for at least a couple more years. :evil:

[kendalyn]

It is annoying when people don't control their kids. Yeah, technically it is your fault, but if people did their jobs raising their kids, the situation never should have happened.

When I was little we knew where to play and where not to play and whose yard to cut through and whose not to. I learned the hard way once and got shot in the head with a BB gun by an old crotchety farmer who thought I was stealing his blueberries! :oops: :lol: It never happened again, that's for sure! Not that I'm advocating the use of BB guns on children... :lol:

[Carolk9s]

Oh HF, I am on your side! I do not think you are insensitive or evil at all. I am of course thankful no child got bit, for the child AND for Devin and you! Kids had NO RIGHT to be in your yard. My dogs go from the house to the van and vice versa off leash, that would be quite a fright to find that someone was in my yard, even a kid!
If the kids do not stop entering your yard, might need to set a little doggie poop booby trap for them to step in.

[Horsefeathers!]

[quote name='Carolk9s']If the kids do not stop entering your yard, might need to set a little doggie poop booby trap for them to step in.

How about one of those spring loaded bear traps? My husband didn't utter a peep when I told him I wanted to dig a moat around the house and fill it with alligators (yes, I said that in mid rant... sometimes I can be a bit less than rational when upset, admittedly :oops: ). Still, I'm sure there are laws forbidding the use of spring loaded bear traps and alligators in handling nuisance children. :-?

What's funny (not funny ha ha because I sure ain't laughing, but funny weird) is that the little girl came over earrrrrrrrrrrly this morning to (groan) use the phone. My husband, the image of diplomacy and rationality, sprang up out of bed to the tune of 8 barking dogs, fumbled to the door and basically told the kid to naff off. It bothered him so much through the morning and through breakfast that he went to their house a while later to apologize and smooth things over. It just upset him to his pea pickin' heart that he was ugly with a child, but he wasn't really THAT ugly... not like potty mouth me. No, he just told her that she couldn't use the phone because he was still trying to sleep... or something like that. Of course, they've been over 398478393928374 since then today to use the phone. No, me, when I get on a roll, it goes more like this >>> "*^$& !^%$ * *^! *(*&^!!"

Anyway, so he's apologized for being short with them this morning and here I go screaming and ranting at them tonight. I must have really let loose a tirade because my throat is scratchy and sore :oops: . In my defense, though, I was REALLY upset. It was dark and it all happened so quickly. At first, I didn't know anyone was there, then someone was and I had no clue that it was kids, a burgler, rapist, murderer (an elderly lady was stabbed almost right next door to me a couple of weeks ago and left to die), or who it was. When I found out it was those same kids that I've asked to stop tormenting my dogs (ran up the steps last week, knocked on the door, set the dogs off, and ran), my fear turned to rage and I let loose.

Now the thing that has me most concerned is (that I spoke in such a manner to a child? NO!) that these kids in this neighborhood really have no structure or supervision. That's putting it mildly. School will be out soon and the kids around here are all pretty much left to their own devices. I have 4 cars in the yard and a houseful of animals, not to mention the house itself. It's not a rental; it's MINE. This was actually a pretty decent neighborhood when we first moved in years ago. Now I always worry about vandalism and/or someone doing something to my animals. We came home one day last year and our entire front yard had been burned to within a few feet of our front door. Talk about scary. To this day, no one knows anything (so they say), but there were obvious signs of accelerants used to set this fire and the trail the fire followed. This is why I really always try to bite my tongue and keep the peace. I don't let my dogs be a nuisance, I keep them inside the house almost all the time, only let into our fenced yard to potty and back inside. They don't stay outside barking, getting into neighbors' trash, or fouling the neighborhood. I try my best not to p*ss anyone off and try so hard to avoid confrontation, though sometimes it takes all I have. The little girl I yelled at... it's her parents that pulled guns on each other last week. Great. Now I'm probably going to be the victim of some driveby shooting, or they'll throw poison over my fence to the dogs, or they'll burn my house down while I'm working all because I yelled at some kids for being where they ought not be.

I used to love this place, but now I can't wait to move. :-?

I am not child friendly.

You don't know how many times I've uttered those exact same words, word for word. I'm barely child tolerant, but definitely not child friendly. And if one more person says, "but you used to be a child, too..." I think I'll just dive out into four lanes of oncoming traffic. Yeah, I used to be a child, but we weren't allowed to roam unsupervised and be a nuisance to the neighbors; we had to be home before dark and my parents ALWAYS knew where I was, so sorry... I can't relate. *mutter* :x

[StarFox]

I don't think your wrong at all. Thoes kids should not have been out after dark..and especally not on your property. I would have done the exact same thing if I were you. In fact I told a kid one time that I was going to let my dog bite him...but only after he swung his bike a few inches away from zebra's face then laughed when zebra got scared and ran behind me. :x

Kids and parents realy suck now a days. I'm only 20 years old and I relize how disrespectful kids are now a days. When I was young(er) I couldn't go out at any time without my parents knowing who, what, where, when, why. And if I were to want to go out after dark...well that was just a joke, my parents bearly let me out at night now! :roll: Although I don't know how much you can blaim a kid, they only know what they are taught..or not taught. :-?

My husband didn't utter a peep when I told him I wanted to dig a moat around the house and fill it with alligators

Why can't you build a moat w/ alligators?? You can become a rescue for alligators. Kill two birds with one stone, take all the unwanted/abused alligators and keep them at your house...and they would keep away thoes pesky kids! :lol:

[ellieangel]

HF I am a mother and my kids wouldn't dream of doing that,they are not allowed out after dark and I have to know where they are at all times.

I don't blame you one bit,I can't stand most of the kids round here either :evil:

[imported_Cassie]

HF, I feel really really bad for you :(
There is not a whole lot you can do, children with no structure become bored...the target of teasing animals or bugging a neighbor who doesnt want them any where near their yard can bocome entertainment to some kids. I would either a. Think of selling and buying a new home (course this depends on the market and the location of your home) b. buying really good high fencing with barbed wire on the top and a padlock on the gate so children cannot get in....you could even run some electric wire around the fencing and have a good warning sign to indicate its their...(our horses have electric wire run all the way around their pasture..even when its on low it give quite a little shock :o I have leaned up against it a few times by mistake :oops:
When I was a child we had great structure and wonderful families...but, we were also country kids and had alot of freedom during the day and evening...and yes I can remember being out past 11:00 when I was in elementary school. We used to drive our neighbors insane, especially the ones with horses and cows and dogs...we would steal peoples dogs to play with for the day (yes even the ones which were tied) and we would try to ride neighbors horses bareback in the fields. We had a few neighbors run out with guns, or shovels etc. after us...this made it much more exciting...seeing what you can get away with is half the fun. The little boys we hung around with including my brothers were much worse than us as they were actually mean to the local animals and would tease them. Just a little child pshcology here :lol: :wink: kids will be kids, and as much as I don't really like kids myself I have found my best defense against them is to pretend I like them. For instance in my neighborhood we have a few bored kids who had snuck around my back woods a few times...I had though I was going to start having problems with them so I put on the "nice" person act :roll: I invited them in to meet my dogs etc. and they started to stop by now and then to say hi and to see my dogs with my supervision....I explained to them why it's not a good idea to come see my dogs when I am not home etc. now, these kids are even discussing their problems with me. :o
I know your situation has gone past the point of getting on good terms....there fore I would make my yard and home child proof...electric fencing would be a good idea. :wink:

[Crested]

You have all the right in the world to be angry HF! I would too if I was in your shoes!

I must say that I LOOOOOVE kids. But... all kids have their own personalities and some personalities I just can't stand. It's the same with adults though.

Why don't you put a burglary alarm up? ;-) You know... when someone touches your windows when you are away, sirens start screaming and waking the whole neighbourghood and scaring the kids half to death? ;-)
Or put the light thing up that when someone comes too close to your house a light goes off and lights the entire yard. No more sneaking in the dark. ;-)

[Horsefeathers!]

[quote name='Cassie']Think of selling and buying a new home
That's in our future plans, but is at least two years away. We are saving the money to buy a big ol' parcel of land, so that we can live as far out in the middle of nowhere as possible. If we can just wait, we can live exactly as we want to (pretty much hermits) when we move.

buying really good high fencing with barbed wire on the top and a padlock on the gate so children cannot get in....you could even run some electric wire around the fencing and have a good warning sign to indicate its their...

That's the most viable option we have and what we are looking into. The back is already fenced and has an electric wire around it. Fencing the front is going to be more difficult. It's hard to explain the layout, but it's a job for sure. In the meantime (dammit), I'm just going to board up my beloved front window from the inside. The whole reason these monsters keep hanging around there is because my dogs love to lay in that window and the kids like pecking on the window to make them bark. I'm just going to board the d*mn thing up from the inside and from the bottom to about halfway up. The bigger dogs could look out, but no one will able to just lay in the window. Maybe out of sight is out of mind for these dogs AND the kids. It won't keep the kids out of the yard, but maybe they'll be bored with no dogs to tease and move on. Won't that be an attractive home fashion statement? :-?

We had a few neighbors run out with guns, or shovels etc. after us...this made it much more exciting...seeing what you can get away with is half the fun.

I could have shot these kids last night. I seriously do carry a concealed weapon because this is a really crappy neighborhood and being ambushed after dark isn't all too uncommon here. Before I knew they were kids, they could have been anything else for all I knew. I know, another trigger happy American, but as long as the bad guys around here have guns and are willing to kick down my door, I have one, too. I'd hate for an error in my own judgment to lead to the shooting of a kid. I could easily have done it last night if it weren't for trying to get my dogs. I would have been wrong, admittedly, but still a kid could be dead.

kids will be kids, and as much as I don't really like kids myself I have found my best defense against them is to pretend I like them.

Ain't no way. I wouldn't have to pretend anything if they just stayed home. Being nice around here (and believe it or not, I tried) only leads them to think you have an open door and they just basically camp out here and won't leave. They think we're running a petting zoo. In the beginning, when I was the nice neighbor everyone loved, they expected me to feed them, snack them, let them in the play video games, and basically babysit them. They don't know when to go home. One little girl spent the night here once because her parents never came looking for her and I didn't send her out after dark. It was evil of me, but I was thinking, "I'm not taking her home... if her parents care, let them come looking for her and maybe it'll shake them up into being more aware of where she is." Nope, they never came and she just went home the next day with no problem. The parents didn't know me from a cat's butt, but had no problem with the fact that the little girl spent the night at my house and weren't even upset that she was "missing" that long. I can't imagine...

One kid was left home alone for a WEEK during Easter when he was about 7 years old. His mom had seen him hanging around our back steps, SLEEPING there with (at the time) our puppy and figured we would watch him for the week. We didn't even know their names and had never even spoken. She didn't ask... she just left him home alone for the week. I called child protective services who made me out to be a real b*stard for basically wasting their time and not wanting to be responsible for whats-his-name. See what we're up against?

I know I'm still ranting and I swear I'm not being argumentative. I'm just nearly at my wit's end. I'm truly not as much of a child hater as I seem sometimes. I've been involved in child rescue in the past and it's a monster system. In a nutshell, I just hate the ignorant, irresponsible peckerwoods raising these kids. That's really who I'm losing patience with.

Why don't you put a burglary alarm up? You know... when someone touches your windows when you are away, sirens start screaming and waking the whole neighbourghood and scaring the kids half to death?

We do have a security system, but can't have it set too sensitive with so many dogs in the house. Since I'm not in the greatest neighborhood, the sad fact is that the law doesn't really get in a hurry to get here when summoned, anyway. Add to that a lot of false alarms, or the alarm going off frequently, and they pretty much just ignore you. I have the alarm set up to go off ONLY if someone is actually coming through the door or window. I'd hate for these kids to trip it all the time and then one day have someone standing over me in bed with a gun and the cops thinking it's just another false alarm and not doing anything. It could happen, anyway.

Things are so crappy here that I've been seriously considering moving my business from the vet clinic 25 miles away to home so that I don't have to leave the house unguarded for so many hours at the time. My business is a booming success and I would have to start it all over again which sucks, but I'm afraid that one day we're going to come home to a disaster.

Moving is definitely in our future. It's just going to be a while. :(

[mouseatthebusstop]

I WOULD HAVE BEEN JUST AS UPSET. IF THE CHILDREN ARE AFRAID MAYBE THEY WON'T COME BACK

[Guest Anonymous]

*Deleted*

[imported_Sayuri]

HF - I know exactly where you are coming from! A family in my neighborhood basically doesn't supervise their kids at all. They come to our house at all hours and we basically become a babysitting service - I've done things for them that other parents would pay me to do, but it's hopeless in this case because their parents don't really look at parenting as if it's required. They just set the kids loose from dawn till dusk. Tai is ok with them, but if there is one thing Kimi can't stand, it's kids going ape and running around the house screaming. She's never bitten anyone, but then, when they're over I have to watch 24/7 to be sure that they won't provoke her. They stick fingers in her face, whap her in the head, and start shrieking when they see her. I have talked to them I don't know how many times about the appropriate way to greet a dog, and they ignore it every time. Then one kid has the nerve to tell me that I need to lock MY dogs in the backyard while he's there! We've also had kids climbing over our fence into the yard with the dogs - they're not biters, but they are watchful - what are they supposed to think when someone is sneaking over a fence at dusk?
What worries me most is that this family is getting animals now - the first cat was picked up by the children and dashed to the sidewalk several times, stuffed into mailboxes, etc. (I really let fly when I saw those things happen) Miraculously, she survived into adulthood, only to be run over by their own car in their driveway. Enter Insta-Replacement Kitty, who, still basically a kitten herself, became pregnant, and had a litter, enthralling the little kids, who essentially used them as little dolls. She's never seen a veterinarian. Now I hear they are thinking of getting a dog - considering their idea of parenting, I shudder to think of the life this poor animal will have.

[Guest Anonymous]

[quote name='SexxieRacerChik']First: You need to contact the authorities EVERY time they are in your yard bothering you. That way if something does happen you have proof that they are constantly in your yard harrassing/bothering you. That is called tresspassing, no matter the person's age.
Again, it won't happen. The cops won't hardly come here for a valid emergency, much less me calling to complain about trespassers. If they come once or twice for an "annoyance" complaint (meaning I'm basically annoying them), they won't come at all afterward. In the nicer neighborhoods, they beat a path, but not here. Maybe when this USED to be a nice neighborhood, but not now.

Second: You need to buy some no tresspassing signs and hang either on your fence or somewhere visable from all angles (all 4..yards are usually oblong or square).

Did that a few years ago.

Third: You may consider calling child services. Since these children's parents obviously don't do the job they should be supervising them. Don't call to talk about the children being outside late at night, call and tell them they are in YOUR yard late at night bothering you and your family. That should set something in motion.

Again, I've done that. Child protective services is to us what you say animal control is to you. It's virtually non-existent. Georgia has worst documented child welfare system in the entire country. I'm not making it up. It's a documented fact. They won't do a thing.

Did you know that if you put up a big fence with barbed wire and such on it and anyone try's to climb it and gets hurt, they can STILL sue you, even if you have a no tresspass sign (that's mostly for the police report). That's why my mom makes me roll the trampoline over after Drake get's through with it each time, that way no one can get hurt. And we have a hard cover that goes over the pool we fold over it after we get through as well. You have to cover your own *ss most times.
Good Luck. Sucky neighbors...when they suck they really SUCk bad.

I know. I actually got rid of my beloved trampoline because kids were jumping the fence to get on it when we were gone. We'd stand it vertically and they'd pull it down. I feared someone pulling it over onto their heads which *I'd* be blamed for. We take the steps away from the pool when we aren't home, but the sad fact is that I'm probably going to get rid of it, too. Even though it's inside our fence, I'm just waiting for someone to hop the fence and find a way into the pool and drown. I feel like I can't have anything because of others' irresponsibility.

I know I've ranted about this on this board for the last two years, but sometimes it just boils over, ya know?

Still can't wait to move and give them all the finger. :evil:

[Guest Anonymous]

Oh... that was me not logged in.
HF

[Guest Anonymous]

*Deleted*

[imported_Cassie]

Did you know that if you put up a big fence with barbed wire and such on it and anyone try's to climb it and gets hurt, they can STILL sue you, even if you have a no tresspass sign (that's mostly for the police report).

That is wonderful, I am going to go to the local airport and climb over their fencing with the barbed wire on the top and sue the airport! :wink: I'll be in the money. Why is it that dept of defense and other areas can have barbed wire on top of their fencing??? in my area they even have the high fencing with the barbed wire on top around our water towers etc. to keep children (and adults) out....these areas are not supervised and have to be kept safe. So if a child climbs over the fencing at the local water tower (the water tower is in a sub division with lots of children) then the parents can sue the city???
I would look into this a little more and perhaps ask a lawyer etc. if it is alright to put up fencing like this. You are protecting children from being harmed in YOUR yard.
As for local police dept's....HF, if your local dept is any thing like ours they hate getting involved in any domestic situations. Its like pulling hens teeth. The most they will do is come out and have a talk with the children and parents, alot of good that does. I don't have any faith in child protection services either, I see alot of kids in our city who are wild and make the world very unpleasant. We have some really nice walking paths which the city made along the harbour in the city...the local kids have started using this as a skate boarding path. My parents who are in their 70's have been almost run over a few times and when my father yelled at some of the punks they came back and threatened him with a pocket knife...these kids where elementary school age.
Kids do not have respect for adults any more as we have let them get away with every thing. They are spoiled (even no supervision is spoiling a child) we should enforce the NIFIL policy for our dogs and children...the world would be a better place. Another part of the problem is (in my area) girls are getting pregnant so they can go on welfare and have a great time...there have been cases of some young girls putting their 3-6 month old babies to bed and then going out for the evening without getting a baby sitter :o they just want the money from welfare without the fuss of having to look after the child. Then you have the other parents who spoil their kids to death and would not punish them as they feel that is wrong.

It's a tough situation you are in HF....I hope you can get that peice of land you want...and the quicker the better.

[marion]

Then you have the other parents who spoil their kids to death and would not punish them as they feel that is wrong.

We have several like that around here, one in particular who can do no wrong in his parents eyes (abusive language to old ladies, riding his off road bike on the pavements, generally being a bloody pain in the neck), they are worse than he is.

I can remember when I was younger :oops: if anyone came to complain (I wasn't a saint then) :lol: my mother never even asked us if it was true, we just got a bloody good clip round the earhole and learnt that we'd best do nothing wrong or else. :D Mind you our antics were nothing as compared to what they get up to these days. I'd never of dreamed of being rude to my elders.

Because mum was widowed young and left with 8 children everyone said the boys would end up in prison and us girls would end up pregnant. This was solely because we had hardly any money even though mum worked hard and really struggled just for the basics in life. Haha, I'm still waiting to have children, none of the boys have ever been in trouble and my other three sisters got married then had children. Guess who's daughters did have to get married. :lol: And we've all ended up owning our own property and running our own businesses at one time or another. But we learnt good manners and to treat our elders with respect.

And I know how you feel HF, the police won't come out here either for what they call trivial matters, trivial to them but a pain in the ass to us.

[courtnek]

HF you have my sympathy, believe me. I come home to a housefull of kids every night, making and leaving messes all over. They all KNOW, now, that if they are stupid and leave the gate open and let my dogs out, they are in DEEP SHIT....

Now, for practicallity. They are TRESSPASSING...they have been warned by you to stay off your property. If you can afford it, get a video camera and set it up inside that window looking out. Tresspassing is a crime. Since they are minors, they would get off, but the police wil get tired of having to arrest them everytime. Also, if your local family services wont help, call the nearest major city and tell them about the gun, and the incident with the dogs after dark. They have more pull then you do, and they can investigate each other. Even the state police may help out.

[kendalyn]

we should enforce the NIFIL policy for our dogs and children...the world would be a better place.

Good parents already do this. It's called saying please, thank you, no thank you, yes ma'am, no sir, may I please?, etc... If my dog has to say please than my kid would too! :lol:

[Horsefeathers!]

I know I sound like I'm being argumentative, but I swear I'm not. One thing that has me hesitant to really push the issue with the law is that I'm truly afraid of what might happen when I'm not home. I'm surprised that we haven't been vandalized before now because it's not uncommon in this area. Even if I thought the cops would get involved, I'd be kind of afraid to really push it far. Most of my dogs and my cats are home alone all day and my house is left untended while we work. Despite the security system, I am afraid that some angry thug will either vandalize the place, or burn it down outright, especially since last year when our entire front yard was burned to within a few feet of the house. This is pretty much swampland, so the fire wasn't spontaneous combustion.

I'm pretty good at trying to cover my butt with the powers that be like documenting stuff like last night. It did save our butts once when one of our dogs bit a kid- covering our butts is what saved us and the dog as we were able to prove it didn't happen like he said. I'm all for documentation, but I really don't want a lot of confrontation. I'm not afraid of people, but I'm afraid of what they might do to my house and animals when I'm gone. If the cops would actually do something, or enforce it, I might push it more, but if they come out and just warn or tell them to stay away, it's like fueling a fire.

I reckon I really just needed to come here and b*tch and moan for a minute and get it off my chest. Thanks for the input. It's been 24 hours and I've almost calmed down. :wink:

[StarFox]

I realy feel for you HF. It's one of thoes damned if you do, damned if you don't type of things. Our neighbors are perty crappy too and there not the type of people that you can go over and "talk too"....no, they are the type that sit out on there lawn drinking beer and playing there music so loud that I can hear it half way down the street. :x Complain and rant as much as you like...honestly we don't mind! :wink: