fear in 10 month old GSD

[dagwood_roxy]

I am getting concerned about my 10 month old GSD. She has always been a curious and courageous puppy. We have taken obedience classes with her since she was 10 weeks old. She is a very good dog and she has so far done very well in beginning and intermediate obedience. We are presently taking the second agility class as well as a flyball class. She has never shown any signs that she is nervous around dogs or other people. When people come to our house she barks at the door, but that is about it. Unlike my lab, who acts like he is just thrilled to see people, she hangs with me mostly without showing that she is nervous about anyone or anything, she seems quite relaxed actually. I believe that this is a typical GSD reaction. During the cold months of January and February, we did not go outside for many walks, but she continued her interaction with people and other dogs through the training classes.

The weather is finally above freezing and we started taking regular morning and evening walks. I am taking her out on her own (as opposed to taking her with my husband and my other dog) because I also need to work on some of the obedience exercises as we will be taking advanced obedience in a couple of weeks and I needed to especially work on the heeling with distractions. The heeling is going wonderfully. I put the leash over my shoulder and she stays in heel position perfectly, so much so that at times she seems connected to my heel. Unfortunately she is showing severe signs of fear. At first I thought that she was going through the teenage flakies and ignored the behavior. Now I am getting very concerned. Today a dog barked behind a house and she jumped up. Now, I know she is not scared of dogs, she sees and plays with them all the time. I thought that the bark took her by surprise. Later she got spooked by a father and child in the driveway. She actually backed up into the street in order to avoid them, which could have been dangerous if I didn’t have a firm hold of the leash. I don’t know what to do. With my older dog we lived in the city, so we saw hundreds of people each day on our walks. Now we moved to the suburbs and on a beautiful day we may see 5 or 6 people. Does she think people without dogs may be a threat, because she never gets scared at people with dogs or any of the people in classes? Do I just ignore her fear, or should I try to create a positive association, like giving her a treat the second she sees someone before she shows any sign of fear. My trainer told me that GSDs are easily spooked at this age, but I am afraid that if I let it go, it might be permanent. Has anyone else had similar experiences and how did you handle it? Do you think that I should ignore her behavior or try to do something about it? Could this escalate into something much worse? This entire behavior started a few weeks ago, as I mentioned prior she has always been very curious and outgoing. She did not have any negative experiences and she is constantly under our supervision, even when in the backyard.

I would appreciate any help/advice you could give me.

Very worried,
Joanna

[imported_Cassie]

I have seen a few purebred dogs go through major fear periods during their growing period. My Newfoundland dogs although shown and socialized often have aquired fears for the unexpected...for example a garbage bag from a neighbors house suddenly blows past us on a walk...my Newf's will some times cower or try to run with their tails between their legs. If the fear is just a growing stage behavior problems then I would set up positive situations....set up situations which you can manage so that your dogs encounters with people go exactly the way you want them to . Encounters that happen spontaneously often just allow your dog to practice her fearful behavior.
Recruit friends or neighbors to position them selves along your walking path. Most dogs are much less threatened if they can approach people who are standing still. People moving toward your dog are invading her personal space, making it more likely she will become upset. Your volunteers should position themselves so that they are not facing your dog as you approach. They can have their backs to you, or be facing perpendicular (at a right angle) from you.
When your dog first notices the person, begin talking to her in a happy tone of voice and offer he an irresistible tidbit. The goal is to get her in a "happy mood" and convince her that a person's presence triggers the beginning of good things for her. Before you begin the exercise, instruct your volunteer to drop a tidbit on the ground when you and your dog are close enough. Your volunteers should not look at your dog, reach toward her or lean over her. Their job is to stand up straight, and ignore your dog while dropping the tidbits.
Stop near your volunteer so that the person can drop 5-6 treats for your dog, with each treat she sould become less tense and fearful, and more relaxed and interested in her tidbits. To ensure that your dog cannot nip a person, at first, stop at a distance greater than the length of your dogs leash. Keep your dogs leash short, but loose....walk past the person for 10 - 15 feet, then turn around and repeat the exercise.

This exercise should help your dog over come some of her fear of unfamiliar visions. Always praise and treat for good behavior and never coddle a fearful dog...this is one of the biggest problems I see working with dogs...the owners feel that by talking gently to their dogs while they are showing fear will help calm them down...it just encourages the dogs fearful response.

If this is a genetic behavior then I would seek a behaviorist to help you. I have 2 friends who breed Shepherds and every year I see the dogs becoming more unstable and fearful. These dogs are shown and are champions...in the show ring they are wonderful as they are conditioned to that environment...but, put them in any other environment and they are very fearful...dangerously fearful. Some times our purebred breeders are too much into the "looks" of their dogs rather than the "stability" of their dogs.
Good luck

[courtnek]

Cassie is right...... let me make a few suggestions. Perhaps your pup has been relying on your Lab to do all the "social" graces...like you said, the Lab would slobber all over visitors, while the GSD hung by your side and stayed out of it. GSD's are natural Guard Dogs....they are one-person dogs, Labs generally like everyone. So having the Lab around precluded her from having to be a social butterfly, she could concentrate on protecting you. Now that she's out alone, with no Lab to respond to people, she may feel uncertain and unsure how to respond. Your best bet is what Cassie said, get her socialzed to strangers on the street. Let her know that
she can be accepting of people, if you say it's ok....

she will not lose her guarding traits, they are bred in...but it will make training easier if she understands that most people are ok....and wil also make her guarding instincts stronger, should you ever need them. Your response is all important. If she feels YOU are ok with it, she will calm down and be ok with it.

:)

p.s. My Lab mix would be a piss-poor "socializer"...she doesnt like strangers...

:lol: :lol:

[Guest Anonymous]

My GSD also went through this stage.

He had a fear of skateboards and prams but only at night (during the day he was fine) - I thought it was just the noise. I just started putting him in the sit position and kept his attention and rewarded the calm behaviour. If a stationary object spooked him (eg sometimes something in a persons garden, tree, box etc) I would stop and take him back past the object again and point to it, touch it and allow him to sniff it. Praise him for checking out the object and then again when he didn't show fear of the object. He is now 18 months old and is over it.

[imported_Kat]

The others have covered it all pretty well. If she barks or growls don't reinforce the behaviour by yelling at her. Instead first try to ignore her and the situation and distract her. She knows obedience and you can make good use out of the obedience training by getting her tuned into what you have to offer her. If she is more absorbed in you (and a treat!) than the surrounding situation, wait until she is sitting and also ignoring the situation and treat her. Don't treat her however to stop her growling as this will only reinforce the behaviour. Be positive, but don't be over-brimming with false happiness as dogs can also sense fraud. GSD's are a very sensitive breed from what I have encountered working with them, and they tend to latch onto one person for security and can be off-hand with other people.

Additionally remember at this age her hormones will be totally unbalanced and she could be coming into her first season, which will also make her temperamental. Finally get a vet to check out her eyes and make sure that she has no congenital eye disorder like a retinolatrophy. This is a condition where the retina is dysfunctional, almost hazy and anyone approaching a dog in surprise from behind or the side, will scare that dog and the first inclination of the dog will be to adopt the defence mode involving a snap.

Good luck and keep us posted :wink:

[Guest Anonymous]

First of all I want to thank you all so much for the wonderful advice!! I am so glad that I found this place!

Cassie, I invited some friends over for a bbq this week-end and I will have them stand in the street first, at different locations along our walk. Unfortunately we don't know too many of our neighbors, so we have to wait for the week-end.

Courtek, you are absolutely right!! Yesterday evening we decided to go for a family walk and with Dagwood along she did not seem intimidated by anything. She did not bark at a single person and was her fearless old self. I guess having Dagwood there takes a great deal of the perceived pressure off her little shoulders. We also tried to make the walk more fun and less of a working walk. This morning I followed that trend. We only heeled for 10 minutes, the rest was a loose leash walk. She barked at one neighbor and I asked her to watch me and I treated her. She stopped barking at him. We passed by several people, and she would watch me without being asked, for which I treated her (I don't know if that is right or not, Jean Donaldson I am not). She did not bark at any dogs and she was fascinated with the canadian geese flying over us. I think that making her walk more fun put her at ease. I realized last night that my work mode may be part of the reason behind her stress. She only barked at my next door neighbor and he was coming straight down his driveway towards us (to say hi), and she did not seem fearful of him - she seemed to just be protective, so I refuse to think that was a step back.

I don't think that her behavior is genetic, because it only started recently, even during her fear stage she was not really scared of much, sometimes she would examine things with more care, but that was about it. It may be partly hormonal (she is spayed) because she has had a few weird episodes in the last few weeks. The flyball trainer hit her with a ball in the face (by mistake) two weeks ago and she didn't want to take any more balls from her. The following week she had no issues with that, but after learning how to paw the box she decided she was scared of the noise it makes, we had to treat her like mad to have her even put her paw on it. This past week she wasn't showing any fear of the box, so who knows what is going on with her .... I just really, really hope that this fear period will be short lived because we are planning to take her to the ocean on vacation this summer and it would be no fun for anyone if she was scared and barking for the whole two weeks.

Kat, I made an appointment at the vet to check her out (it is about time for her annual checkup anyway) but I don't think that it is a physical problem, she sees dogs and people from miles away ... It is so funny that you would write that about not reinforcing growling and barking by mistake. Last night I wanted to teach her the command quiet and I read in my book that I should get her to bark , then praise, then tell her quiet and treat. I must have done it wrong because I think she thought that she was getting treated for barking and she kept running to the front door barking. We totally ignored her and I will read that chapter again before attempting the quiet command. Sadly, I did not hear much of American Idol though ....

Thanks again!!!

[courtnek]

She'll be OK guest, but a hint of warning....GSD's are extremely intelligent, and can be manipulative. Their intelligence is well known to most people, guard dogs, K9 forces, military...they can be too smart for YOUR own good...If you treat her excessively everytime she doesnt want to do something (like paw the box) she WILL use that against you. They are that intelligent. She may "devise" ways to get you to treat her because she's not responding properly.....I;m NOT kidding, I had to break a GSD
of this habit because she was gaining so much weight being treated for every little thing....In her case, until she settles down some, (and she will as she matures) it might be better to treat her with praise and a game instead of food. Food is a prime motivator with dogs. It may take a while to break her of the habit, and may take longer to get her to achieve without food, but in the long run it works in your favor.

I read once that dogs have the average intelligence level of a three year old...and having a son, I can tell you honestly that that is the stage where manipulation is the way they are....

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[courtnek]

p.s.

sign up and join us wont you?

:fadein:

[dagwood_roxy]

I did sign up, I guess I must have forgotten to log in yesterday ... and I would absolutely love to join you guys!!!

We no longer treat her at the box, we only did it that one day she was showing fear of the noise. She absolutely adores flyball, we are pretty depressed over the fact that there will be no more flyball until the fall and we haven't joined a team, therefore we will have nobody to practice with. I found another club that has the flyball equipment and might be forming teams this summer, so there may be some hope later on, once the ground dries up.

You are right on the money on Ms. Roxy, she is a little manipulator at times, generally though she is just a wonderful high strung pup. She has done wonders for Dagwood, for sure. People can't believe that he is 8 years old, he is looking younger and fitter than he has in years, thanks to his sister. She has ways to make him play even when he initially blatantly refused her.

I took Roxy for another walk last night. Two teenagers walked right past us, she did not bark, growl, she did break her heel and showed interest, but I was thrilled with that response. We passed by several people, with some she showed interest, some she ignored, none made her afraid. I am now convinced that I am totally to blame for the situation. In the last few months we did agility (with short jumps due to her age) and flyball but we let go some of the obedience work. I wanted to play catch up because we are taking the advanced obedience class starting April 10th. The school we go to is very tough on us, I think because a)they see a great deal of potential in Roxy b)they specialize in GSDs and I always felt that they pay extra attention to GSD owners. Because of that I was being totally stupid and stressing Roxy out with one hour heels, I think that the stress affected her reaction to people. I am now taking a much more relaxed approach, giving her a great deal of praise, alternating exercises with loose leash walks and making the whole walking thing fun, fun, fun. She is heeling better, doing her off leash heels better (with a thin cord, just in case), she sits nicely each time I stop, comes to heel nicely, etc... I don't know what was wrong with me!!! Roxy does not give a damn about how well she will or will not do in obedience class, and Roxy is the important one here, not my stresses or the demanding trainer (who we actually like, because we like challenges). I could just slap myself ....

Thanks again for the advice,
Joanna

[Carolk9s]

Hi Joanna,
I realize this is not addressing your initial concern but I noticed that your 10 month old girl has been involved in both agility AND flyball already? I was glad to read that jumps were short or low but I am hoping any flyball practice has also been modified for her. Is she hitting the box to release the ball or is it being handed to her or what? Repetitive actions can result in repetitive stress injuries, especially in growing pups who's growth plates are still open.

[dagwood_roxy]

Carolk9s, thanks for pointing that out to me. The school had reassured me that flyball would be fine for her age. It is an excellent school and with 175 agility dogs as clients, I doubt very much that they would put my puppy at risk. The class is one hour each week and she has been hitting the box for 2 weeks now. I will ask them again about safety for her age. I might ask them to just hand the ball out for the remaining two sessions, her health is the most important thing by far!!!

Thanks for your input,

Joanna