I've just been hit with BSL

[Guest Mutts4Me]

We can't take Sasha camping anymore.

We belong to a members only campground chain, for which we pay an annual fee. They're nice campgrounds, and one is just about 10 minutes away, which makes a nice "get away" for my mom in the summer, while still being conveniently close to home. My mom's already excited about spring, because it means camping, lol.

Today they got a newsletter with a bunch of updates, and on the last page is an Important Announcement, with a cute picture of a Golden Retriever. It says that their insurance company is making them ban certain breeds from the campgrounds.

The following breeds or any mixture of these breeds will no longer be allowed in any of our resorts: Wolf, Wold Hybrids, Huskies, Dalmatians, Airedales, Great Danes, Staffordshire Terriers, Alaskan Malamutes, Siberian Huskies, Chow, Doberman Pinschers, Pit Bull Terriers, Rottweiler, Akita, Mastiff, German Shepherd and Presa Canario.

So if you count Wolf/Wolf Hybrids as one (they already said mixes :roll: ), and count Huskies/Siberian Huskies as one, then that's 15 breeds of dogs that have been banned, and a HUGE number of mutts, since I'm convinced that a majority of large mutts are to some degree "shepherd mixes" (at least that's how it seems). My dog is one of them, since she is predominately chow in appearance (and we can't deny it, since her tongue's got purple splotches).

I'm really pretty speechless. This is a campground. Families go camping with their dogs. How are they going to pull this off?

I've been chased viscously by a dachshund, and bitten repeatedly by another dachshund. But they're safe, as are all the little dogs with inferiority complexes that cause them to act big and bad. But my dog, who's never bitten a person in her life, is no longer welcome at a family resort. Really nice.

I of course don't agree with breed banning in any form, and I'd be angry and venting if it'd only been Pit Bulls that were banned, too. But let this be an example for people who are not strongly opposed to breed banning. Just because you don't have a pit bull doesn't mean BSL can't affect you negatively.

[courtnek]

I'm sorry for the language, but that's just BULLSHIT....have they had incidents with these dogs. or are they just covering their asses???

[Guest Anonymous]

I'm so sorry. I can imagine how mad you must be. I've never been able to take my dogs on vacation with me, we go to the beach and there's no pets allowed. But I think it would really suck to have been able to take them and have fun and then all of a sudden not be able to take them anymore. I agree with you about the little dogs though. IF everyone reported ALL dog bites I think the smaller breeds would get the top spots for worst biters instead of the bigger dogs.

[abker17]

This is the reason BSL is so scary, and why we should ALL be up in arms about it. No matter what sort of dog u have. It reminds me of a saying I heard once that went something like this:
First they came for the Pit Bull, and I didn't stand up because I didn't have a pit bull
Then they came for the Staffy and I didn't stand up because I didn't have a Staffy
Then they came for the Rottie, but I didn't stand up because I didn't have a Rottie
Then when they came for my Beagle, there was no one left to stand up!

Well that's not the exact quote but something to that extent and u get the point. :oops: :oops:

[bk_blue]

That's fwarked... I wonder what would happen if someone took a stereotypical Lab or Golden Retriever camping and it turned out to be the nastiest dog ever? Would they ban them as well?? Where is it going to stop?? :x

[schippsmom]

:Dog_run:

that sucks!! I have a little dog and he tried to bite someone once but they scared the crap out of him and now he just barks and people think he will bite so they stay away. a few people venture close to him and he runs away. he is such a wimp :lol:

I do agree that little dogs bite more often but that doesn't mean they have little bites, they all hurt when they bit and lawsuits are lawsuits, so why do they discriminate? The policy should be simply, no dogs.

We "camp" but we bought a cabin in the Allegheny National Forest and we own it so we do what we want. Wish I could give you some advice but all I can come up with is try to find another campground.

[Guest Mutts4Me]

[quote name='abker17'] First they came for the Pit Bull, and I didn't stand up because I didn't have a pit bull
Then they came for the Staffy and I didn't stand up because I didn't have a Staffy
Then they came for the Rottie, but I didn't stand up because I didn't have a Rottie
Then when they came for my Beagle, there was no one left to stand up!

Yeah, it's a play off of the old Holocaust poem:

[quote]First they came for the Jews
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the Communists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left
to speak out for me.

Pastor Martin Niem

[Malamum]

That really sucks!!

I think I would prefer them to say no dogs at all rather than pick and choose and only allow certain dogs.

[Horsefeathers!]

M4M, any way to play that off? Sasha looks like she could be a Collie/Lab mix for all I know (two "safe" breeds).

I'd cancel probably just for the principle of it, but you never know where bsl may pop up again. It's nice to know you have a "safe" mutt with that Collie/Lab mix 'n all (even if it is a stretch... who could prove otherwise?)...

I placed a gorgeous Chow/Shepherd mix once with a lady who vowed that she would never have a Chow. He became a Collie/Shepherd mix and has been this woman's best friend for a couple of years or so, black spotted tongue and all. I don't place a lot of faith in the black tongue thing being a surefire way to tell a Chow. I groom plenty of Poodles, Cockers and a variety of other dogs and mixes with black speckled tongues. Ah, the glory of having mutts. They can be anything you want them to be.

[gooeydog]

I don't place a lot of faith in the black tongue thing being a surefire way to tell a Chow.

I agree with this... Goo has a quarter sized black spot on her tongue, and while we have no way of proving she's a completely purebred APBT, she's definitely not a chow mix :lol: . Lots of dogs have black spots on their tongues, I've seen a couple other definitely purebred non-chow/sharpei dogs with spots as well. There's also a decent article about it somewhere online you may check into, just in case this issue crops up again over soemthing more serious (home insurance, etc).

[Guest Mutts4Me]

Horsefeathers! napisał(a):

M4M, any way to play that off? Sasha looks like she could be a Collie/Lab mix for all I know (two "safe" breeds).

Actually, we had already decided we could call her a collie/golden, lol :)

My mom just said, "let them prove that she's any of those things." My main concern was the purple splotches, but I'll go ahead and look for any articles like the one gooeydog mentioned.

I think we should cancel on principle, too, but camping isn't my thing. I only go out to spend the afternoon, maybe have a campfire... walk my dog around to look at all the other dogs (the best part!) :) My mom loves that chain, so it'll be a tough decision for her.

I am kind of upset because I can't write a letter talking about my shepherd/chow mix just in case my parents play her off as a collie/golden. I doubt they'd fact-check, but I wouldn't want to risk it for them. I really do love writing letters, sigh.

[kendalyn]

They can't possibly prove that your mutt is any of those breeds. I would take her and wait for them to say something. If they do say something, challenge them on it.

My guess is that they won't say anything. This campground is a franchise right? So the brochure is probably just something the corporate office sent out and the individual campgrounds probably don't really care. Especially if Sasha has been there before and been fine.

[Guest Mutts4Me]

It's a small group called Outdoor Adventures, Inc. They have 5 resorts/campgrounds in Michigan, and that's it.

I have no idea how well they intend to enforce this new rule... If they don't care unless someone complains, or if they intend to check dogs entering the parks, or what? If the former, I'd imagine people are more likely to "tell on" someone who has a pit-ish looking dog than a happy looking fuzzbucket.

I still wouldn't feel comfortable with it... not because I'd be breaking rules (stupid rules), but because there would be other people who couldn't bend the rules. It's going to get messy. What if someone has a Boxer/Boxer mix or American Bulldog/AB mix that someone swears is a pit bull? Or a Belgian Malinios that someone swears is a GSD?

Besides, there's going to be a huge blow up. I've seen numerous dogs from that list in the campgrounds. I remember once driving by and my jaw dropping at the site of a couple walking two HUGE dogs by the beach. One was the biggest Rottweiler I've ever seen, and the other was even bigger, a Rottweiler cross - maybe with Mastiff. (I can't even imagine spending time in a camper with those two dogs ;)) But the point is, there's going to be a LOT of people who've always gone camping with their dogs who're now going to be told to leave them at home or board them... That's almost the point of camping, you know... taking a vacation without having to leave your pets.

I couldn't find any article about the black/purple tongue spotting, but I did find a lot of breed websites that said that it occurs in purebreds, too, plus some other BB's.

Oh yeah, a goofy picture of Sasha where you can see some of her purple tongue:

[imported_Elle]

I know you're angry w/ the campground & the insurance company, but what it boils down to is the general public is all too quick to take legal action about anything & everything these days. Which causes all businesses to have to cover their butts. The business is in it for a profit which is what our free enterprise is all about so can't blame them. Next time you hear of a frivalous or questionable law suit, then raise your voices.

[imported_Elle]

oh, PS - a mix I use to have - 1/2 golden, 1/4 lab & 1/4 irish setter had a huge freckle on her tongue.

[Guest Mutts4Me]

K napisał(a):

About the tongue.. you could tell them she chews ballpoint pens...my mum used to say that about her two instead of trying to explain..people always believed her :roll:

LOL :lol:

[Peng1zrule]

while your dog does look chow, splotches on the tongue are like moles...everybody can get 'em, so don't allow them to rule out your baby because of some tongue splotches! one thing that apbt people are especially fond of is to take thier well behaved dogs to the legislators writing these rules...Vickie Hearne even wrote of a New York City lawmaker who reversed her approval of a law because apbt owners turned up enforce in her office with their well behaved pets...she said, "I just can't do it...they're too sweet!" (about the dogs) My advice would be to organize a bunch of well behaved breed representatives and have them meet these rule-writers...and of course, write letters vigorously.

[Queen Bitch]

You know, I could swear that Sasha is a Shar Pei/ Spitz mix, isn't she? :wink: Unless my eyes are failing me, I didn't see Peis on the list.

[Guest Mutts4Me]

Peng1zrule napisał(a):

My advice would be to organize a bunch of well behaved breed representatives and have them meet these rule-writers...and of course, write letters vigorously.

I would love to do that... both options. I've thought about it, but I really have no idea How to organize a bunch of people I don't know... from all over the state. And the rule-writers are only doing what their insurance company is making them do. I don't know what insurance company they use... hmm... Can you see a bunch of people walking their big dogs up the steps of a big insurance company :)

And letter writing is a passion of mine (English major with too much time on her hands), but I'm in an uncomfortable position in that I can't say "I have a chow/shepherd mix, blah blah blah" because my parents may be passing her off (if anyone questions them) as a collie/golden or other mix. As I mentioned before, I think it's unlikely that they're going to fact-check and say "No, it's not that mix because this letter here says it's a chow/shepherd mix," but I don't want to take that risk with my mom's camping. She loves to go out to the campground, and she enjoys taking the mutt with her when she goes.

hillside - shar-pei, lol :) I definitely thought about a Finnish Spitz, but never gave a thought to the shar-pei side of it... "Umm, yeah, she really takes after her mommy..." :)

[Queen Bitch]

Heehee. I mean she does look like she could have any sort of spitz in her.

[courtnek]

M4M, dont worry about it. This is a CYA....This way, if an incident occurs, they can point to the brochure and say "see, it's here in writing. We told them not to bring these types of dogs." it protects the campground from being sued by throwing the onus of "disregarding the rules" on the owner of the dog(s). Most campground personnel couldnt tell a Golden from an
Irish Setter. If they happen to ask (and I doubt they will) Sasha is a Golden Collie.

It's the same with those disclaimers at amusement parks...If you fall off the ride we are not responsible...etc.etc...

[kendalyn]

The bottom line is that even you have no idea what Sasha is. Even though you think she may have some chow in her, you could be wrong. There is really no way to tell.

[Guest Anonymous]

that is just AWFUL AWFUL AWFUL. Have you called the campground and complained and threatened to leave yet. see how many others you can get to sing a petition with you.



Marcia Jasinski
JKKsEuro Dobermans
to be doberless would be worse then death!!
If my dobes cant go I WONT GO

[Guest Mutts4Me]

I guess my main point of posting was not Sasha, because we're not really really concerned about that. It's probably not going to be enforced strictly, and even if, they can't prove she's part chow.

My main concern is protesting the issue. I would very much love to get other people organized, and somehow stage a protest together, but I'm not sure how, since I have no way of knowing who else is a member in the entire state. I could call and throw a big fit, and maybe I will. I could write a letter to the newspaper, and maybe I will (though they haven't published my last 3 letters I sent them since the Pit Bull thing, so maybe there's a limit, lol).

I could put a giant ad in the newspaper saying "Have you and your dogs been affected by Outdoor Adventures, Inc.'s new dog banning policy? If you have the following kinds of dogs, or mixes thereof, you're no longer allowed to bring them to the park. If this upsets you, please contact this email address." But I don't have the kind of money I'm sure that would cost (especially if I wanted to put it in the local paper where each of the 5 resorts are... and even that wouldn't reach everyone), plus I don't know how to organize something. And I'm not prepared to face legal action if Outdoor Adventures wants to accuse me of something.

So I guess I'll do what I can do. Thanks for all the advice and suggestions :)

[courtnek]

You have a pc, a printer? FLYERS!!!

costs practically nothing, except the paper, and you can post them at stores, supermarkets, etc...the pet stores would probably let you post there as well. as far as legal action, if you just use the same wording (in quotes) that they put in their brochures, you havent broken any laws.
after posting the brochure wording, underneath it you could put something like "Do YOU feel this is fair? If not, contact....etc.etc...."