I think Coal's gone pyschotic...

[Guest Anonymous]

He is seriously starting to freak me out... I'm not sure if I need to start getting more into his training, which actually I know I probably should. I've been super busy with school and this new flu I got :-? But he's been like this for a while... his behavior DOES seem to improve when I train him more often, so could that just be it? Do I need to start working with him like twice a day or something? If possible anyway...

My mom said he might be just getting cabin feaver, because of the snow and the new tie out he doesn't get to run around a lot, and walks have become limited because he pulls so much on the leash, and I just discovered when I try to put the gental leader on him he snaps at me :o :o I don't let him get away with it, and will coax him into the gental leader with food, but why would he react in such a way to it?? Is that just because he's so dominent?


Now the pyschotic thing that's worried me... my parents and sister have actually both thought maybe his eye sight's bad, but I've played with him and will often trick him with the slightest move of my body language, make it look like I'm going one way and actually go the other ect. ect. You see, he barks and growls and snaps at the weirdest things... the one that's freaked me out most lately is the filling cabnet beside the desk. He will crawl under the desk and start licking the cabnet and barking and growling at it :icon_rock: :hmmmm:
To name a few other things he's taken to barking at for quite some time... the snow man in the front yard, the living room wall, the living room door, and Jared's PARKED Quad...
Is my dog going CRAZY????!!! :crazyeyes:
I've been trying to give him things to do that deal with problem solving to work his mind that he can do on his own. I know if Border Collies especially don't get thier mind worked they can go a bit bokers. I've put cookies in boxes... cookies in boxes inside of boxes inside of boxes... ect... we got him a Milkbone Ball (the red one) which you can put milkbones in, but after the first try it now only takes him a couple minutes to get them out. Also one he really likes lately is ice, he's so curious about ice, 'pecially ice in his water dish so I've put ice cubes in his water dish for him to get out... So far that's the only things I can come up with, any other suggestions would be really appretiated! :D

Should I go in to get Coal's eyes checked? He does run into things a lot... like walls, doorways, and even the stair railing, and people... and couches, and often coffee tables, and the bookshelf.. and sometimes the computer desk... and once my bed... but I thought those were just him being a clumsy puppy!! He's always just a running so I thought that's all it was, that he just doesn't pay attention on what he's doing or where he's going because he's just going going going... But do you think I should get his eyes checked out just in case?

At first we'd just laugh at his crazy weird behavior, but as it progresses into more things I'm starting to get worried :o

Thanks in advance!

[kendalyn]

Getting his eyes checked isn't a bad idea. But, if his eye sight is bad, can they do anything for it? I would also really try and increase his excercise. Feeling all geared up with nowhere to expend his energy could make him pretty loopy and irritable.

I got Buck to stop pulling by using the tree method. I never move when he is pulling. It didn't take long for him to get it. Every once in a while if he gets excited he'll pull a bit, but as soon as I don't move he remembers and stops. You could try that. He's also getting a good heel down. Whenever he walks close up by me I say, "Close" and then praise him a lot. Now when I say close, he stops and lets me catch up, then he walks next to me. I usually just let him walk at the end of the leash though, as long as he isn't pulling.

Does he like to play frisbee or catch? With the snow all high those games wear Buck out really fast because he has to push through all the snow to run for the ball. Maybe try that?

[MajiesMom]

kendalyn napisał(a):

Getting his eyes checked isn't a bad idea. But, if his eye sight is bad, can they do anything for it? I would also really try and increase his excercise. Feeling all geared up with nowhere to expend his energy could make him pretty loopy and irritable.

I agree, have his eyes checked. That is kind of a long list of things he's knocked into that I'd be worried.
Excercise is a wonderful thing, run him into the ground! Excercise solves 80% of behavioral problems.
Keep up with your OB.

[MajiesMom]

If it's not his eyes, I just think you have a tough one, which isn't a bad thing they usually are the best kind of dog! Magic has weird things like that too. I wish for one second she could talk to me and tell me WTF she is thinking!
I think with these types of dogs you can't reason (not that you can reason with any dog but.... you know, they just kind of know) obedience is the next best thing. As already mentioned exercise is good, a tierd dog=sleeping dog is always good.

[Guest Anonymous]

Thanks for your replies...

I will talk to my rents about getting his eyes checked.

I will try the tree method too, I totally forgot about that! I tried it with Hazel but it never worked, she was always stronger then me and I couldn't stay perfectly still long enough before my arm got wrenched out :-?

I would love to throw a ball for him to tromp through the snow (we have almost four feet! It would deffently give him a work out) but there's NEVER a garantee he'll bring the ball back!! I sometimes will toss one toy, then do a trade, he has to bring that one back to get the second one thrown ect. ect. But that doesn't always work either and I end up trudging through the snow after him half the time :roll: :lol: I was thinking of taking a looooong string and tying it to his ball and throwing that and reeling it in like a fishing line :lol: He can run back and forth :lol:

There's this other problem he has that's driving me to my witts end!! When he doesn't obay, if he's chasing the cat or just won't come when he's called and I try to grab him by the collar and lead him out of the situtation he rolls over on his back his teeth in a snarl and will bite at my arms :-? Not viciously, although it really looks like it, he puts on more of a show then really harming me, I only get scratches from his claws. But it's EXTREMELY frustrating and a pain to have to try and DRAG him somewhere else, he just DOESN'T LISTEN. I'm always presistant with him, and you'd think he'd know by now that he just doesn't get his way when he does that, but he doesn't seem to learn. I've NEVER let him get away with it, so I don't know where he gets off thinking he can!! It's been a problem for a LOONG time now and I've tried next to everything to try and get him to stop but it seems impossible! He's DEFFENTLY a challange and is extremely dominant, but I've been laying down the "nothing is free" laws, he cant' go through door ways before me, can't sleep on my bed, in fact he knows he's not allowed up without my permision, and he sits before every meal, so I don't understand what I'm doing wrong *tears out hair*

[kendalyn]

Maybe try getting him a harness? That way he couldn't flip over on his back.

If you do the tree method, just remember to let him go as soon as he takes one step back. He'll probably pull again right away and you won't get anywhere, but that's normal.

[Guest Anonymous]

Thanks...

He has a harness, a very OLD harness, but he does this whenever, so he'd have to wear it 24/7...

[Guest Anonymous]

Shara i would get his eyes tested!! just to be on the safe side. and i agree that try to get more excersice for him if you can!

[kendalyn]

Just out of curiousity, can the vet do anything about eyesight problems in a dog? I've certainly never heard of corrective lenses for a dog... That's not to say you shouldn't get him checked, but it doesn't seem like the information would be that helpful. Maybe just a good thing to know though.

[imported_Cassie]

Sounds like you have your self one hyper hound! :lol:
One thing I have learned about the nothing is free in life policy...every one in the family has to be consistant with it...if the dog gets attention when they are rude...they learn to be pushy to get what they want.

There's this other problem he has that's driving me to my witts end!! When he doesn't obay, if he's chasing the cat or just won't come when he's called and I try to grab him by the collar and lead him out of the situtation he rolls over on his back his teeth in a snarl and will bite at my arms

Coal has border collie in him...border collies have a strong predatory instinct...the instinct to chase has been enhanced in this breed. In this case I would not grab the dog by the collar...I would train coal a well-trained emergency down...many dogs will down even when they won't "come" because they can still watch the prey. Stopping the charge gives the dog's arousal level and adrenaline time to recede, and then you may be able to call her back from the "down" or calmly walk up to her and snap her leash on. It's never a good idea to just grab a dog which is intent on the chase...the dogs arousal level is still so high and can be frustrating...its the same thing as with my Rottie...when I first got her she was very easily aroused by passing skate boarders, dogs etc. IF I had tried to grab her collar and make her obey me and made her ignore the objects of interest she would go crazy and lunge and pretty near take a temper tantrum....I learned that its not a good idea to get between the dog and the prey object...the best thing is to try to redirect the dogs attention to you...or have the dog lay down....my Rottie used to grumble alot...but, she would go into a down. I have also seen some awful cases of when a person had more than 2 dogs out in a kennel...the dogs had a full view of the road way and would run up and down barking and fence fighting...one dog got in the way...the other dogs which had their adrenaline running high attacked the dog which got in the way...the dog had fallen to the ground and the other 2 dogs took out their frustration of not being able to get the object desired onto the dog which had fallen...it was quite a time breaking up that fight...after wards the dogs all carried on and played as usual.

You see, he barks and growls and snaps at the weirdest things... the one that's freaked me out most lately is the filling cabnet beside the desk. He will crawl under the desk and start licking the cabnet and barking and growling at it
To name a few other things he's taken to barking at for quite some time... the snow man in the front yard, the living room wall, the living room door, and Jared's PARKED Quad...
Is my dog going CRAZY????!!!

Perhaps your dog is going through adolescence???? I have had many Newfoundland dogs which had been fine as pups...then they reach adolescence and they go through a fear stage....a simple garbage bag had one of my boys freaked out and barking and backing into a corner...it comes so naturally to me on how to handle these situations that I can't even really explain what I do...except that I always act confident around my dogs, I don't make them confront their fears...but, I will let them work it out on their own...my Newf had to pass the garbage bag quite a few times before he realized it would not harm him.
A good vet check is always a good idea as well....have Coals eye sight tested etc.
As you already know, border collies are extremely hyper dogs..they really need alot of exercise...I live in Canada as well and we have just gotten almost 30 cm of snow....I take my dogs walking on snowmobile trails...easy to walk on :wink: I throw objects for my Rottie and Dobie mix (my Newf's don't really like to chase things) and if they loose the object I really don't care...I use sticks or branches for them to chase...of course sticks can be dangerous so they are not for every dog to chase.... :oops:
Is there any way you can arrange for Coal to have a playmate...I found alot of people with one dog families who ask if they can bring their dog out with mine...its a great way to meet new people and they dogs really wear each other out. My Rottie will actually stalk and chase the other dogs...at one time this used to freak me out...but, now that she does not take it any further than grab-bite I allow her to play this way with my other dogs...Rotties were orginally bred to drove cattle...my Rottie still has that drive to perform that job...and if she has to drove my other dogs..then I let her...they are all starting to understand its just a game. :wink:
One more thing...I know you are very much into feeding BARF or whole fresh products to Coal...make sure any meats you feed are free range meats and organic foods...some times if a hyper hound has to deal with alot of additives it can make them that much more hyper...If you are feeding kibble make sure its a good quality low protein, non-allergenic additive free diet. Oh course you probably already know this... :wink:
You might also want to do a few tests to see if your dog has ADHD...if you want I can type out the test for you to try at home.

[imported_Cassie]

One last thing...if Coal will not come to you...don't run up and grab him...try using another tactic...come chase with me...when Coal will not come...run the other way most dogs will chase you...when Coal reaches you stand side ways and crouch down to praise coal for coming then play with Coal...with dogs when they feel they are being pursued etc. they can take on a defensive mode. Walking up to a dog, standing over it and grabbing the dogs collar is very aggressive...I know alot of dogs which would react in a defensive manner. Teach Coal that coming to you means fun..of course if coal has his attention on a prey object your best bet is to do the emergency down then approach Coal in a less aggressive manner and bend down beside coal not over coal and snap on the leash.

Good luck to you.

[DogPaddle]

Coal is an adolescent and may need a lot of stuff that is just fun. Play, snuggle, spend time doing other stuff and then once he's a bit worn out then do obedience but make it all fun for him. He needs to be obedient but if its all the crack down for him he probably will begin to ignore it and just try to find his own fun.

[Guest Anonymous]

Thanks for your replies guys! :D I asked mom if this spring sometime we could bring him to the vets because I want a clean bill of health and an OK to do Agility anyways, so we can get his eyes check then too.

I have no idea why but I never even THOUGHT of how he'd feel more deffensive if I bend over him like that and stuff. Will deffently use the down, and will use to chase thing when he doesn't come.
I started yesterday with training him to heel and using the tree method, but I found he doesn't step back and I want him to heel too, so I would get him to sit beside me in a heel when he'd pull, then we'd go again. And do that every time he pulled. We walked down to the stop sign (not that far) and back and by the time we got back to the house I could already see improvements and he'd walk by me for a longer period of time. This is the first time I've trained him heel outside, he's done awsome in the house on and offlead. So I'm going to keep that up, and then going to take him for a walk with Lexie and her dog Duke, and when I think he's good with that around here, I asked my friend Mandi if I could bring him into town and we could take the dogs for a walk together (she has two border collies, one who's still a little puppy) and she said sure, but she has to teach her dogs to heel first :lol: So he's got three potential doggy friends, going to get him a bit better at his training first though. Plus he can play with Duke more now because we got him that run so no worries of him wandering off :D
Thanks very much for your replies guys!
He is DEFFENTLY Entering that adulecnce!! He's gettin much more stuborn and "snarky", acting much more like a Teen :lol: :oops:
I'm glad he's not just crazy! :lol: When we get him into the vets (not sure how money's going right now, last I checked it was kina tight and since he's not BLIND it's not a huge emergancy) I will let you guys know how things go :wink:

[imported_Cassie]

Coal is very lucky to have such a caring Mom :wink:
You will have so much fun with agility!

[Guest Anonymous]

Okay, a little update on Coaly...
The pulling on leash is getting MUCH better!! It's more like a slight tug now and when I stop, then keep going he is very good once reminded! :D

As for his little hissy fits... eak! Even bending down, instead of standing over him, trying to bribe him, and all the sweet talk imaginable and he's STILL pulling them :evil: :drinking: Last night he wouldn't get out of my room (I didn't want him sleeping in there, he wakes me up early in the morning and I was feeling really sick) and he'd turn around and snap at me, just WOULDN'T move!! I had to finally push him out and shut the door before he could turn around and snap me again!! I'm so incredibly frustrated with this! :cry: He listens just fine to my parents, I seem to be the only one he does this too, and I'm the only one who gives him rules! My parents spoil him rotten and he listens to them better! What ever happend to a dog with rules is a better behaved dog?!

[Duke_3]

Get his eyes checked for sure..
but as for the barking at strange things, He mught noit be barking at jsut the wall shara, we BOTH know WHOelse lives in your house if you know waht i mean...

Dogs can see them when we dont..

[Guest Anonymous]

Lexie, that's your house! :lol: Mine's been ghost free for a while now! 'Member, my Ouji board never even worked! :lol:

[imported_Cassie]

Last night he wouldn't get out of my room (I didn't want him sleeping in there, he wakes me up early in the morning and I was feeling really sick) and he'd turn around and snap at me, just WOULDN'T move!! I had to finally push him out and shut the door before he could turn around and snap me again!! I'm so incredibly frustrated with this! He listens just fine to my parents, I seem to be the only one he does this too, and I'm the only one who gives him rules! My parents spoil him rotten and he listens to them better! What ever happend to a dog with rules is a better behaved dog?!

Shara, I feel bad for you...if your family is not helping you set ground rules for coal, its not going be easy...the nothing in free in life policy will not work unless EVERY ONE in the house hold enforces it. What is happening is that your Mom & Dad are spoiling coal...they are not crossing any lines, coal sees no reason to put them in their place....but, if some thing does happen that your mom or dad had to make coal do some thing he doesnt want to do...then watch out! you are the only one enforcing rules...why should coal have to listen to you when he can do what ever he wants when your not there. If there are behavior issues envolved...every one in the family has to work on them together...
I have seen this happen so often with clients...one person enforces rules while every one else spoils the dog rotten...by doing this the dog becomes confused....a confused dog can become a dangerous dog..the only other issue I find more dangerous than this is when people reinforce bad behavior...the dog growls at some one and the owner pets the dogs and tells the dog its alright...or the dog is frightened of an object or person and the owner enforces the fear by talking softly to the dog...thus enforcing the dogs reason for being frightened. I swear, some of our clients think their dogs speak fluent english... :lol:

I feel really bad for you Shara...talk with your parents and explain how important it is that every one enforces rules with coal. Make Coal earn every thing he gets from trips outside, to meals, treats, fetch games etc. Its very important right now to do this training..once Coal has learned the rules of the house and he has reached adulthood..(most adolescent dogs will test their rules to see what they can get away with) once the behavior is under control then Coal will know his limits and understand that every one in the house controls all his resources. Dogs trained in this manner make very nice house mates :wink: I own 6 dogs, 2 of them intact males...during adolescence I admit it was tough going....the dogs did try to get away with things...my Rottie when I first got her attacked me a few times....I kept with the nothing is free in life and in the long run it really paid off...now I own 6 wonderful companions who respect me and my house guests, and are lovely happy dogs...happy because they know what is expected of them. It can be done, grit your teeth and get through adolescence together and really try to explain to your parents how important this training is. I am sure every thing will work out for you.