Dad...No BC

[Guest Anonymous]

Hello.
I can't convince my dad not to get a border collie. He read somewhere that they are supossed to be the smartest breed and he loves mine so he wants one. The problem he has a really small back yard, works from about 7 to 8 most days and there is no one home. He had two golden retrivers (he got them at about 5 years old) and they tore up the garden every chance they got. He uses the excuse they were just too dumb to train, granted that the previous owners obviously had no intention of giving them even the most basic obediance training. They were not even house broken.
I've tried and tried to talk him out of it and he always says "Yeah. but your dog is so good" AT which point I tell him that I wake up half an hour early every morning before work to give him a half hour work out before I leave. I have four acrs for him to enjoy, although his tied up when i'm at work. He has alot of running room though. ABout 100 meters. He gets another hour really heavy exercise when I get home plus I train for atleast half an hour a day. When i'm not home his off his run so he can do what ever he wants (normally following me around) and I take him every where I go plus do agility with him. And even that isn't enough exercise for him though he seems content and not too overly energetic.
Then he says, yeah, but it will be smart enough to learn that the garden isn't a toy. GOd it's frusterating. Because I know for a fact the dog will be lucky to get a 15 minute walk each day. His gonna be a hell raiser at my dads. So after dad decides the dog is too much for him I know what gonna happen. HIs going to try to give the dog to me... I don't want another dog. So then his going to give the dog to a shelter no doubt :( He tells me this won't happen and he will spend heaps of time with it but it's not going to happen. Maybe for the first few months but certainly not for 15 years... The dog won't leave the house unless his going for a walk.
HOw can I get through to him? He won't lisson and has his eyes keenly set on a bc pup. I don't wanna see another dog going to a shelter unneccesarily.
ANd yes, I am easily the worlds best god handler :P

[Guest Anonymous]

*Deleted*

[mouseatthebusstop]

you could pop round to take it out when dads at work

[Malamum]

Sounds like you've given your Dad all the right reasons for not getting a B.C.

Since he is not really taking it in why don't you go on a little holiday and have your Dad mind your dog while you are away. Make a list of all the daily things you do with your dog and tell your Dad he has to do each and every one.

After having your dog for a week or so he may realise how much work it really is and reconsider.

[Guest Anonymous]

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[dogsgalore]

I agree, you should 'lend' your dog to your Dad for a week and let him see that having a BC would be a lot of work. If he did get into trouble at your Dad's maybe he wouldn't want one. :-? Good luck.

[Malamum]

But what if her dad let's her dog fo things that he shouldn't? A week is a long time for a smart dog to figure out new things he shouldn't be doing.

Are you saying that no one who has a dog can never go on holiday and leave their dog with someone else? Whenever you do eave your dog with someone else their routine for that time is never going to be identical to what it would be if they were at home with you. I seriously can't see any behavioral changes occurring.

[Guest Anonymous]

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[kendalyn]

I think cats are different though. Every cat I have ever met is a lot less trainable than any dog. The furthest extent to training on a cat I've ever seen is they learn to go potty in the litter box and not to scratch the furniture.

Even if your BC did learn a few bad habits, it wouldn't take you long to break them. I think once your dog got settled back into the usual routine, he would be fine. Plus, it sounds like you live nearby so you could check in on them everyday. I think it sounds like a good idea. I also doubt it will work because it sounds like he isn't being reasonable. It's really hard to talk an unreasonable person out of anything. But it is worth a shot. Let us know how it goes if you decide to do it.

[Malamum]

My point really was just that since the poster's Dad won't seem to listen to reason then the next best thing would seem to be to try to show him.

Now, I don't know the poster or their Dad so they would need to work out the logistics of that themselves. Maybe both the dog and the owner could go and visit with the Dad for a bit, or the Dad could go an stay at the owners house, either way it's was just a suggestion so that the Dad could really see how much work goes into having a well behaved dog and that it just doesn't magically happen.

[Guest Mutts4Me]

kendalyn napisał(a):

The furthest extent to training on a cat I've ever seen is they learn to go potty in the litter box and not to scratch the furniture.

LOL! I've never had to potty train any of mine, they just seem to do it instinctively.

But I agree that the cats and dogs are different. Your cat discovered the great outdoors, and now she wants to go there. It's different than, say, a dog being allowed on the couch for a week at another person's house, then being brought back home where it's not allowed. The dog may at first jump on the couch, but after a correction or two, it should click that she's no longer allowed on the couch.

Dogs learn bad habits everywhere, not just when they're left with someone for a week. Someone coming over your house for dinner may slip some table scraps to the dog, or accidentally reward other bad behavoirs (petting when jumped on, for instance). It's bound to happen now and then, just as a part of life. But lessons are learned, and relearned, and everything should be fine. And if it helps someone not make a big mistake, then it's probably worth it.

I do think that looking into a middle aged BC might be a good idea if he's set in his convictions that he needs one.

[kendalyn]

LOL! I've never had to potty train any of mine, they just seem to do it instinctively.

I've never had a cat! I guess I assumed you had to teach them. That's really interesting that they just know how to do it. My roommate a few years ago had 2 cats. One she found and she wanted to know if I wanted it. I desperately wanted to keep Sophie, but I was worried about finding a place that allows dogs and cats. So my roomie kept Sophie. I miss that cat so much. She was a little terror! So spunky but still very loveable. I really wish I had kept her now.

[imported_Kat]

Hi there and welcome to the forum.

I am currently writing a thesis based on research that I completed last year, that is centred around social behaviour of Border Collies from pet,working,obedience, agility groups. One thing that consistently stands out is that all dogs regardless of their experience all scored highly on one component of the test, which was a problem solving test to assess the stamina trait. Intelligence that people apply to BC's is a very broad term, so I prefer to breakdow that intelligence into different behavioural traits.

What my results tell me is what I expected before I undertook this research. Border collies regardless of their background all need stimulation. They appear to have that little bit extra social behaviour which should be channeled into something useful. If a BC does not get that crucial training, then they start to invent their own fun to mentally exercise themselves and that is when problems of aggression and destructive behaviour will arise. Quite frequently at the dog club where I am a trainer, I have people that come up to me after watching my own BC Meg work with me, and say that they are thinking of getting a BC, and the reasoning behind it is because they say "Yours is so good and I want such an attentive obedient dog like that". My answer to them is that the BC is the best and worst breed to own and that it takes someone who really has committment to give a BC stimulation. The proof is in the statistics. In the UK, the BC is the most common breed to end up in a shelter(38%) or with a canine behaviourist, due to behavioural problems.

My Meg may be a brilliant dog working championship obedience and agility, as well as other activities, but she was trained, and if she wasn't she would be a nightmare of a dog I am quite sure of that, because even now she still shows initiative to do things that I haven't ever taught her, like reminding me to bring my mobile when I left it sitting on a rock, and was ready to drive off!

I would strongly discourage your father from getting a BC. He simply sounds as if he has no time and is getting a BC for all the wrong reasons, and it isn't fair that you should have to go and walk his dog everyday.

[Guest Anonymous]

Thanks for the replies. The middle BC sounded like a good idea but apperently he wants a puppy "because they are cute.. And will bond better with me" I mean..g...GRRRRR!! That ticked me off. The leaving the dog at his house is a good idea. I might give that a go.. It may be worth a shot. The dog has learned bad habits before from people (my dad for instance) which was easy to stop.
And if he does get it, I won't be able to take care of it. He lives and hour or so away from me and I have work during the day. So the dog would be pretty much inprisoned in a back yard no bigger that 3 meters by 4 meters for at least 9 hours a day. Poor thing..

I might try to convince him if he is so desperate to get a working dog to get a breed thats a little less highly strung. A sheltie maybe. I've heard some good things about them. Though, any working dog isn't going to be completely happy at that house unfortunatly