Time for a change?

[Horsefeathers!]

My dogs have been eating Wellness food for over a year, maybe two. Their meals are also supplemented by a cooked natural diet and a little junk here and there. We've been very pleased with the Wellness so far. Initially, we had ONE dog who was extremely gassy during the "induction," but it passed (literally :oops: ).

Recently, ALL of our dogs (there are nine in the house) are getting gassy. Most of them are also beginning to exhibit heartburn like symptoms... where they kind of burp and gag and sometimes spew up this vile smelling stuff, but not actually like puking.

In an effort to identify the problem, we've cut out ALL cooked foods and snacks for the last week or so. They've had NOTHING but Wellness. Still, they are about to run us out of here. They are all farting and burping like you can't imagine. This sounds like a joke, but it's not... there is so much "force" behind this gas (from either end). They are passing wind rather violently. Poops and such are still normal.

Has anyone heard that Wellness has changed their formula or anything? I can't figure out what's causing this recent reaction and in nearly ALL of them. They get whatever Wellness is available... we have to take what we can get because it's not that easy to find here. Still, that's not a recent change. We've always bought various Wellness formulas and mixed old with new when opening a new bag.

Any ideas? Do I simply need to change their food? The thing is that Wellness is just about the best thing I can get locally. There is no Canidae or Solid Gold or anything like that available to me locally and online ordering is not an option. The next closest thing would be Chicken Soup For The Dog Lover's Soul. If I have to, I can drive an hour away and stock up on something better. We have actually been toying with the idea of just ditching the dog food altogether and putting them solely on a homecooked diet, but I'm not ready to give up the convenience of kibble yet, with SO many mouths to feed.

I was just wondering if anyone had heard of any changes in Wellness, or do I just need to switch to something else for a while? I know that's a good idea, anyway, but it would make it much easier if it were more convenient. :oops:

[gooeydog]

Maybe just a bad batch? Try calling the place you get it from and asking them if anyone else has had problems.

[Horsefeathers!]

I had kind of thought about that, but didn't know... we've been having a bit of a gas problem for the last few weeks and we have bought several bags of food since the problems began. I was thinking that maybe if it were a bad batch, we'd be past it by now? That's the reason I keep buying it. I don't know. I think I will stop by there tomorrow and just ask, anyway, like you said. Of course, the staff at the ONLY store in town who sells it is a bunch of less than "caring" folks. If there was a problem, I don't think they'd tell me even if they knew. :-?

[gooeydog]

If you've already been through several bags, I would guess then that maybe the food just isn't agreeing with them anymore. I understand completely about what you mean by the people not caring... the only place to get a 1/2 decent food around here is Petco, and trying to get any information out of them about when food will be in, or how long it's been sitting around is like trying to get information out of a two year old.

[TDG]

i'd also say contact them and ask if there has been a recent change.

in addition to that, you might consider feeding them a supplement that contains digestive enzymes and probiotics - that usually fixes any digestive upsets pretty quickly.

yogurt with live cultures works okay, but products like nupro or nzymes are a lot stronger. if you need the "big guns", there's a product called "bene bac" made by pet ag that's really good.

as for the "chicken soup" food - i personally hate the name and the marketing hype that is associated with it, but i have heard of a lot of dogs who are doing really well on it.

[3ofakind]

I wander if the bags are old. Wellness contains quite a few grains and if you are close to the expiration date, this could be a big cause for gas. I really think it is definitely time for a change.

Have you heard of the new Blue dog food? It is being sold at Petsmart, which is also starting to carry Royal Canin. Not sure if you have access to a Petsmart, but have gotten some really good feedback on this new Blue dog food. Might be something for you to look into.

[Horsefeathers!]

Thanks for the tips. :)

I went into the store today to ask if anyone else had been having problems with the Wellness and to buy some more food. In an incredible stroke of luck, I happened to see two bags of Canidae laying on the floor at the front of the store. I asked if they were now stocking Canidae and the guy said he just orders it for his dogs and hadn't taken it out yet. He did sell me one bag and told me he could get more. I am going to try the gang on this Canidae and see what it's all about. Of course, all this was AFTER my trip to the health food store to buy some acidophilus. I really hadn't intended to change foods yet, but couldn't pass up the chance to try the Canidae since it's never been available locally before. One thing I like about it already... it has smaller pieces which my smaller dogs will appreciate. I always did feel kind of sorry for them having to work so hard to eat such big pieces of food, but I'm sure I was more concerned than they were.


Sooooo I have some Canidae (wet and dry) and acidophilus. I'm going to give the wet to the Standard Poodles who have the worst digestive problems (Perry has already had one stomach surgery and I get paranoid when they start having problems) since it's supposed to have less preservatives (the canning process preserves it... see, I can be taught!). We'll see how it goes.

One other question for TDG or anyone else who might know. My Standard Poodle (Perry) has a problem with bacterial overgrowth in his stomach/digestive tract which manifests itself in horrible, necrotic smelling breath (one thing that led to his surgery). He gets a sprinkle of tilosin powder (Tylan) on his food each night to curb the overgrowth of bacteria. It's been the only thing helpful so far. If we take him off it, the breath of death comes back. Do you suppose the acidophilus could be a good trade off for the tilosin powder? I've used acidophilus before, but have been too afraid to take Perry off the powder, but I do like the idea of him not having to have antibiotics his entire life. Any opinions?

Thanks again. :)

[kendalyn]

I asked if they were now stocking Canidae and the guy said he just orders it for his dogs

It's kind of weird that he doesn't sell it in his store if it's what he feeds his own dogs.

Good luck with it!

[Horsefeathers!]

This particular store is one of a small chain of stores... most located about an hour south of me. These stores virtually never carry the same products. For example, all the Tallahassee stores carry Three Dog Bakery (a food I would have tried), but not this one. At first, we had to basically beg and plead with them to keep the Wellness in stock as sometimes they had it and sometimes they didn't and when they got it, they'd have to have it shipped up from one of the other stores. I frequently see new faces in this store as management and staff (it's a small store). I think sometimes they transfer them from the other stores. It's mostly run by kids. I'm thinking the guy (I'd never seen him before and I'm there nearly weekly) may have been recently transferred up here from another store that DID carry the Canidae and he just has it shipped from there for his own. They have always said they will not carry food that doesn't sell which was why Wellness was so hard for me to get. At one time, NO ONE else in my town was buying it, but I went on a campaign and had several acquaintances start buying it so they would carry it. For example, I tried to buy Wellness cat food today because I know they used to carry it, but they said no one was buying it, so....


Did any of that make sense? :oops: :-?

[kendalyn]

yeah, makes sense. Too bad it's so hard for you to get the food you want though. :-?

[TDG]

good luck with the canidae, horsefeathers! :) it's definitely a quality product and not quite as expensive as the wellness.

as for the bacteria overgrowth - the probiotics should help, but i don't know if one specific type only (acidophilus) will solve the problem. i'd definitely give it a try tho, if not, try a product that combines several different types.

maybe you can also give oxy drops a try? here are two articles that mention them:

here (scroll down) and here.

these articles were written specifically for a great dane page, but the feeding recommendations are definitely useful for any kind of dog, regardless of size or breed. linda is usually also happy to give support via email.

[Horsefeathers!]

TDG, thanks so much for those links! I have bookmarked them. I am planning to order the Nzymes and Oxydrops, particularly for Perry with the bacterial overgrowth. It certainly sounds like just the thing to try for what ails him. I also have three "allergy" dogs here that I can't wait to try the Nzymes on. I have also read how candida and overgrowth of yeast is very often misdiagnosed as allergies in dogs. One of my allergy dogs was the one that I put on BARF some time back in an effort to help those allergies and it didn't work. Two dogs are on temaril and I do NOT want to have them spend their lives taking prednisone to relieve itching. I feel so much more optimistic. The most I've been able to get from many sources is that my dogs only need a natural (raw) diet and if that doesn't fix it, it can't be fixed (which explains a lot of my frustration with the whole BARF hype). I've natural (cooked) dieted my dogs to death, but I still have a problem with "allergies" and the two Standards with digestive problems. I've always been so skeptical of supplements, supplements, supplements in these "natural" diets when dogs wouldn't naturally be eating this stuff in the wild (which "the wild" is what a lot of these diets are supposed to mimic).

Anyway, I digress. THANK YOU for helping me suss this stuff out. Whether it works or not, I'm much more optimistic.

One other question. IF the acidophilus is going to help with the gas (green fog) floating around here, how long will it take to notice a difference? Is it something that needs to build in their systems for a while, or does it act pretty much instantly?

I can't thank you enough! :angel:

[TDG]

horsefeathers, i wish you all the best intrying, hopefully it will work out. i believe more in natural/holistic type approaches too than life-long administering of drugs like prednisone, antibiotics etc.

i am not sure how long overall it will take to clear up things with the probiotic, since it depends on how quickly the beneficial bacteria can colonize and crowd out the "bad" ones. if it's just a digestive upset, it should work within 2-3 days or so, but if you have a dog that has taken antibiotics (which kill all bacteria, good and bad), especially over a prolonged period of time, it might take a lot longer until they are reestablished and "doing their job". additional support from digestive enzymes will definitely speed things up.

overall, my opinion is that just like different dogs require different training methods, they require different feeding methods as well - there is no "one size fits all". you can't just lump all of them together. the best you can do as an owner is to experiment and see what works best for your dog, and of course what you can afford (money and time wise!). be it a quality kibble, canned food, home cooked or raw, or any combination.

again, good luck and let me know how things are going!

[TDG]

eh, forgot something.

keep in mind that addressing the real cause of the problem, not just the symptoms, will definitely take longer, but it should clear up the condition and not just the results of it. :)

a lot of medications just address whatever part of the problem becomes obvious for some reason, but supporting and rebuilding the digestive system right where it's needed (with enzymes and probiotics, and an inhibitor like oxydrops if required) you are taking a complete approach to eliminate the underlying cause.

[Horsefeathers!]

Thanks so much. I just now ordered the Oxy-Drops and Nzymes treats. Most of my dogs will likely do fine on a decent food as they always have. I really hope these supplements are a step in the right direction for Perry and Pauly with their tummy problems and perhaps the ones who have been diagnosed with allergies. Treating the allergy symptoms the traditional ways haven't worked, nor did BARF, so I'm willing to try just about anything that doesn't involve longterm use of drugs.

Will certainly update as time passes. Thanks again!

[Horsefeathers!]

Day 2 and already marked improvement on the gas issue. We've made a few changes in the way they're fed based on a lot of the info I've been reading on that site (TDG, that has kept me reading for hours and hours... so much info!).

We're adding water and a bit of wet food to all the dogs' food. One thing I like is that it slows down their eating (no wolfing it down), but it makes sense that it keeps them from wanting to pound down water after eating. Also, it makes sense to me that it would keep from pulling so much of the body's water to digest the food.

The "problem" dogs are getting acidophilus twice a day, the rest, once a day. I have an order in for some Oxy-Drops and Nzymes. If it does nothing more than help with this holy moly gas issue, it's worth it, but I'm really going to try to diddle around until I find something that helps at least a little with my allergy dogs. When I BARFed my one allergy dog, I did use some supplements with her as recommended, but it didn't help in regard to allergies. To be fair, neither has anything else (then again, nothing else made her so sick). I guess I should not have sounded in my last post like I have a problem with supplements because I don't. I used them when BARFing (though admittedly not when feeding kibble except adding natural foods as a supplement). I guess my problem is OVERsupplementation of a "natural" diet, but I digress. I'm still learning and I'm FINALLY hearing stuff (that makes sense to me) I hadn't already heard before.

I just can't tell you how excited I am about all this. Just on day two and very little gas where a couple of days ago I was seriously considering sleeping in my car!