courtnek Posted December 26, 2003 Posted December 26, 2003 He is not and he actually seems to be more content to have clearly defined boundaries of what is acceptable and what is not He is HF....there is nothing worse for a pack member than to not know his place. They get upset, frightened, and then belligerent. I believe he sees you as Alpha, and he wanted to be Beta. Hubby was there, and was not coming across to Pauly as a strong Beta. He tried to usurp, and to his surprise, both you and hubby turned on him and put him in his place. You'll have to keep it up until he's completely accepted his demotion, but once he does, he'll be a happier and friendlier dog. Your input by standing by Hubby is crucial. Good job HF!!! :D :D :D :D Quote
Horsefeathers! Posted December 28, 2003 Author Posted December 28, 2003 Just a little update... Things are going well. Pauly is adjusting to his new rank and has a newfound respect for my husband. There is still the occasional dispute, but it's nothing like it was and we are able to handle it. Pauly is a smart dog and learns quickly. I'm just glad he isn't snappy and shy by nature. I mean, he's a wonderful companion and is great in public; he had just gotten a bit too big for his britches (as we say around here). He will soon be earning back privileges. He (along with the rest of the P gang) usually accompanies me whenever I leave the house. Pauly hasn't left the house in over a week... a BIG disappointment for him, especially when he sees the other dogs still able to leave with me and he's stuck at home. The light has gone on and he's making the connection on how great life can be, or how much it can suck. Still working on it, but things are getting back to normal and Pauly is settling down. Thanks for the input. :) Quote
courtnek Posted December 28, 2003 Posted December 28, 2003 GOOD JOB HF AND HUBBY!! you learned in two days what it has taken me WEEKS to teach others!! dogs dont mind being demoted, they dont feel, like people, that they have been insulted....THEIR PLACE has not been usurped because it was never theirs to begin with..can I use your story in my training? I cant tell you how many people have told me "I cant make him get off the bed, it's HIS PLACE" It IS NOW, you idiot. You gave it to hi m... understanding the pack rules makes life alot easier. I wish everyone did... Quote
KP Posted December 28, 2003 Posted December 28, 2003 [quote name='courtnek']I am not a fan of scruffing, and you should never lift the dog off the floor, but a short, sharp snap of the line will remind him who's boss without hurting him. Wolves dont scruff an adult or almost adult pup because it could cause injury to a pack member. Instead, there would be a showdown of teeth posturing, snarling and lunging. If the other wolf didnt back down, it would become a fight, but usually, the almost-adult will give up to the pack lead. If the almost adult DIDNT give up, he would definitely be bitten, although not usually enough to cause any real damage, by the pack lead. And yes, the lead WILL kill a pack member who wont back down, if he has to. Obviously that particular method isnt going to work for you, you cant get down on hands and kness and teeth challenge Pauly, but with the lead in place you can correct him sternly without danger to yourselves, and that includes isolation from you if he doesnt give it up. Hopefully you've caught it soon enough and none of this will be necessary (the sterner forms of demotion, like isolation). The lead and some strong firm stances from you and hubby should be enough to take him down and show him his place. :-? I think you misunderstood what I meant....I guess I didn't explain it very well... I meant this by basically just grabbing with a full hand scruff possibly even with two hands and just giving a low growling firm "no" even so much as giving a small shake if necissary without pulling the dog off the ground, which is done by wolf packs and dog packs as a form of dominance over other adult dogs....very often in fact. You can see this big time in play sessions as a way for one dog to dominate another. For a dog, grabbing at the neck is the first and main target for a dog to get a hold of in a dog fight or play because it's the biggest vulnerability bulls eye. If you have multiple dogs that do play or even get into p*ssing matches together from time to time there is no way you haven't seen this. That is what I meant. If my dog challenges me I ain't backin down a hair especially in the beginning. When you are in the beginning stages dominance 9.9 times out of 10 he won't be expecting it from you and doing this right away, in the right way can be very effective. Its imparative to confront the problem to the best of your ability before it really starts to grow. Although, this method is not always necissary if you are using other effective methods to correct the dog. In all of the dogs that I have owned or taught who have challenged me or their owners, I have never been bitten doing this in the beginning stages of these problems. Maybe I have just learned the right timing and how to catch them off guard and how get my point acrossed...I don't know but it came natural to me to learn this. Usually once I have done this the first time the dogs gets the point and they don't need to be reminded again... Like I said, you don't need to pick an adult dog up off the ground to get your point acrossed and doing this will not cause harm to your adult dog as long as you are not pulling it off the ground. It is a very natural correction and domination technique and it would be a first time ever for me to have anyone believe otherwise. I guess I didn't state that very clearly before. Just wanted to clear up what I meant... :D Although I don't agree with everything you said on a personal basis, Courtnek I understand for the most part and appreciate what you have said and your reasoning... So glad to see things are going so well HF! Thats great news! :) Glad you found something that works for you and your husband...thats the key, and what's important. What works for one doesn't always work for another. Take care! :D Quote
courtnek Posted December 28, 2003 Posted December 28, 2003 I apologize KP - I went back and reread your post, and realize that you did NOT advocate lifting him off the floor. That was my concern, around here, when the "good ol' boy" trainers teach scruffing, they teach it as lifting the dog off the floor and holding him by his scruff. So I apologize. and I was applying that same kind of scruffing to your wolf example, and you are correct. They do grab each other by the neck, just dont lift very far. So maybe I should read more carefully, huh? :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: Quote
KP Posted December 29, 2003 Posted December 29, 2003 No big deal...I wasn't offended or anything just wanted to explain a little better :) I wasn't very clear with the way I worded it all :wink: Take care!! Quote
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