dogsgalore Posted November 30, 2003 Posted November 30, 2003 What do you think of this page, (of tail docking): http://www.amrottclub.org/dock.htm Quote
courtnek Posted November 30, 2003 Posted November 30, 2003 I personally would not do it, since I dont have working dogs, but I can see the reasons behind it. The tails of my dogs, although the hair is short, often get matted and filled up with burs, brush and junk in the yard. My foxhound had the runs, and her tail was covered with dung that I had to clean off... I can see the purpose in a working dog, for the dogs sake. My fox hound also bangs her tail into walls, doors, and doorways, and has has a lump that will need to be sliced and drained.... I COMPLETELY disagree with "rubber band " docking...I think thats cruelty. If it needs to be done, have it done surgically where there is less chance of infection and future problems.... Quote
Guest Anonymous Posted November 30, 2003 Posted November 30, 2003 to me it looks like a bunch of excuses to keep docking the tails of dogs that are for the most part not working dogs anymore, and haven't been in some generations. i'm not generally opposed to tail docking in itself, but don't see it as being necessary in an animal that is first and foremost a pet and a companion, and not a working dog who would be likely to suffer damage on the tail due to adverse conditions. a bunch of arguments are also completely bogus, such as - herding/stock dogs getting their tails dirty etc. - how many breeds of herding dogs and flock guardians do you know that have docked tails? when i think "herding dog", the first breeds that come to mind are border collie, collie, the 3 belgian breeds, briard, and german shepherd. the only two "tailless" ones that i can think of immediately are OES and some heelers. - injuries from tail wagging, because not only "normally docked" breeds can get them, it happens to "normally not-docked" breeds as well. - TOTALLY BOGUS is the argument how it is a "distinguishing characteristic" for a breed. anyone with half a brain will still be able to tell a rottweiler and a lab apart, even if the rottie has a docked tail. pffft. - many of us place our puppies in the refrigerator for a two minutes during their second week. excuse me??? i've never heard of any rottie breeder doing that. what a bunch of BS. i wonder how many less informed people are misguided by that sort of garbage. there's a lot of other stuff on that site that i really hope inexperienced dog owners never lay eyes on. it could well ruin a "problem dog" or a young puppy even more than it helps. just my personal opinion. Quote
Guest Anonymous Posted November 30, 2003 Posted November 30, 2003 ugh i just realized i made a mistake. "anyone with half a brain will still be able to tell a rottweiler and a lab apart, even if the rottie has a docked tail." was supposed to be "anyone with half a brain will still be able to tell a rottweiler and a lab apart, even if the rottie doesn't have a docked tail." Quote
dogsgalore Posted November 30, 2003 Author Posted November 30, 2003 My thoughts exactly Guest. I was shocked when I read about them putting the pups in the fridge! About docking the tails so that the dog won't hurt them is just like saying a man should have his big toe amputated to avoid stubbing it. Quote
courtnek Posted November 30, 2003 Posted November 30, 2003 Guest, while I agree with the majority of your statement, I do have to disagree with this... to me it looks like a bunch of excuses to keep docking the tails of dogs that are for the most part not working dogs anymore, and haven't been in some generations My rescued Foxhound was a working dog. She was field trialed. Hunted foxes, basically. She originally belonged to a Hunt Club, and they were worked every weekend. When her trial life came to an end, she was rescued by a Foxhound society, who tries to find them new forever homes. A lot like Greyhound Rescue... So some of them, although not most, still "work"...they dont dock foxhound tails because the dogs use them for navigating around, like a rudder when running fast... :) Quote
kendalyn Posted November 30, 2003 Posted November 30, 2003 I have to say that I don't see the reason for tail docking ( or ear cropping for that matter) on dogs that are going to be pets. Maybe it makes sense for the few dogs that do work, but the vast majority have no real reason to have their tail docked. I still don't believe that it is really that beneficial for dogs that are working. I mean if the dog is taken care of properly they should never have a build up of feces anywhere on their body. It just seems like an unnecessary procedure that will increase the chances for infection or other complications for the puppy. Quote
Guest Anonymous Posted November 30, 2003 Posted November 30, 2003 courtnek, i am talking about the animals that are specifically bred more for non-working homes than anything else, not the ones that actually are working dogs for the most part of their lives. :) Quote
courtnek Posted November 30, 2003 Posted November 30, 2003 Kendalyn and Guest, I agree with you both. If the dog is not going to "work", or be shown (Rotties are required to be docked to show) then there is no reason for it. A pet wont face the hazards of field working, or herding, or anything else, most likely.....My point was only that some dogs do still start out their life as workers, and there are valid reasons for docking with a working dog. Remember, their original purpose was to herd, to fight, to guard...and a long tail could be a disability under those circumstances...Not so much for the herders (I really dont understanf that thinking) but for the military dogs and guarders, I can understand it. A dogs tail can easily be grabbed, and the dog can be trapped by it. So for military and guarding work, with some dogs, I can see it. Dogs that may have to fight, to do their job, are better off without the tail. I think that's how docking got started, contrary to the article... Quote
courtnek Posted November 30, 2003 Posted November 30, 2003 My other bitch is with the Hunt Clubs....the dogs get too old to work, so they simply "put them down"....GGGRRRRRRRRRR... If it werent for the Rescue Socities, I wouldnt have Laurel. And while she's a handful, I WILL get her issues worked out, and she WILL be a good housedog. She loves me more than my other dog does!!!!!!! I wont get started on this...but I think if you're going to have dogs, whether they work or not, you NEED to provide for them in their "non-working" old age..... Quote
Guest Anonymous Posted November 30, 2003 Posted November 30, 2003 i don't even think it's necessary for showing. why cut something off that just "interferes" with looks? why not develop the breed towards a look that allows for a natural tail? just look how much things have changed since ear cropping has been banned in some countries. i remember that 20 years ago you'd barely ever see a great dane with uncropped ears for example - today there are more uncropped ones than cropped. personally i am a huge proponent of taking breeds back to a more natural state. no excessively huge or tiny individuals of large or small breeds with all the orthopedic problems and other health issues, no overly deformed animals that can't even give birth naturally anymore, have dental issues because there's not enough room for all teeth, things like that. Quote
courtnek Posted November 30, 2003 Posted November 30, 2003 I agree that it's not necessary, however it is required by the show judges. I dont believe that's right, and I agree that they should be left to the natural body they were given... I think Rotties and Dobies with tails and non-croped ears are cute... actually less threatening looking then the ones with docked tails and cropped ears.. Quote
Nancy B Posted November 30, 2003 Posted November 30, 2003 I'm just not even gonna get into this yet again! Well.....I will say that it's not the judges who decide on whether or not the tail must be docked on a show dog. The parent club for the breed writes the breed standard and submits it to the AKC. The judges learn that standard and are supposed to judge according to it. Quote
courtnek Posted November 30, 2003 Posted November 30, 2003 Thank you Nancy...I didnt know that. If the judges are ruled by the Bred Clubs, things may never get changed. And I am not for that. I truly dont believe in docikng or cropping unless its' necessary,l but in some instances, it is necessary... Quote
imported_Kat Posted November 30, 2003 Posted November 30, 2003 At the end of the day it is the various KC's and breed organisations that have the final influence. Docking and cropping will continue as long as it is permitted in the rules and kept "in fashion in the ring". Quote
zheelah Posted November 30, 2003 Posted November 30, 2003 On the issue of military and police dogs, the tail should not interfer because they do use GSD and belgian sheepdogs, and those dogs are not docked (althoug I know it is infact much easyier to grab them than a sleek docked dobermann or rottweiler). Docking and cropping has been banned here in Iceland for two years and I doubt if they will change the rules. Most of the dogs, that are of working breeds, are kept as pets, showdogs or in training, I dont know of any rottweiler that is used for cowherding (although my Dobermann enjoys herding my horses but he is more just running than herding) and I know plenty of orking farmdogs that dont bruse their tail because it is dirty. We will have to see what influence the taildocking bann in many countries does to the breeds, and if it is for the best or not. Quote
mouseatthebusstop Posted November 30, 2003 Posted November 30, 2003 I do not agree with tail docking- all dogs should be left as nature intended only remove the reproductive parts Quote
imported_Debbie Posted December 3, 2003 Posted December 3, 2003 :o The woman that wrote that article is bonkers !! When she is referring to herding dogs on farms , with tails that become laden with feces..... is this in the year 2003 or is she talking about the middle ages ?? If it is indeed now, those dogs aren't being properly cared for !! While there are dogs that are still doing the work they were bred to do, I think they are really in the minority. I really think the majority of dogs are kept as pets. I have a Lab/Rott and she has a beautiful curled fan tail , similar to the Rott they were illustrating in Sweden(?). Yes, when she gets excited that tail goes a mile a minute, but she's never hurt it or anybody with it. I totally agree with Mouse, dogs should be showed and left as the good Lord intended them to be AU NATURALE !! :wink: And WTF is that REFRIGERATION all about !! :o I don't agree with that at all and I don't care who she's quoting about that practice !! They're all full of CRAP !! :x Quote
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