Clicker Training

[Guest Anonymous]

I think I may have brought this up once before, but now I have a bit more info under my belt and a bit more of an open mind about it.
Here goes, I just recently joined an obediance class for Coal, and their main focus is on Clicker Training. The trainer is really nice and said that she can work with me without it, and has asked me to use the word "yes" as my cue instead of the clicker. She also said she'd bring in some info about the "yes" for me, very nice lady. I have stuck my foot down about the clicker many times. I just don't like it. The reason is this: I think it's pretty useless. I figure if you can say "Good Dog" while using the clicker, and can reward with treats, whats the point of it? It just seems utterly useless to me! HOWEVER, I do understand how it is supose to be used as a tool to "mark" the behavior. When at class she gave everyone a free clicker, and when she asked everyone to click it after she showed us how a chorus of "CLICK CLICK CLICK" ran up through the hollow room and you wouldn't beleive the look on Coal's face! It was halarious! I've never seen him pay attention to anything like that (besides his cheese :wink: )! So I'm wondering... maybe... just maybe... if I can get past my stubborness... it might work for Coal?
But I can't seem to get past the fact I think it's kina useless. It's like treat reward. I don't like it. While I'll say yeah, it's great when teaching something new, it's a really bad thing to keep a dog dependant on them, because no body caries dog treats on them 24/7 right? (MOST people...) I'm sure I would be just as less likely to cary the clicker with me, and isn't the clicker a bit on the same level as treats?
The trainer gave us a few papers on the clicker, and about the things we learned during our lesson (which by the way, Coal did excellent on, and picked up things very quick). I gave it a quick read over, and glanced at the little red clicker box sitting in my "doggy drawer" and wondering whether to give it a chance or not... I may try it out tonight, but no garantees, like I said, I'm VERY stuborn.
Does anybody here use the clicker? Why/why not? I'd love to hear what everyone else has to say about it, or any suggestions, now that I'm a little bit more open mind about it :lol:
Thanks in advance!!

[Guest Anonymous]

Yes, I understand that, but I could also do that without the clicker, this is why I'm confused on it's true purpose. I could just as easily do the variable treat thing using praise and no clicker. In my mind, it seems basiclly like taking one habit (the constant treating) and replacing it with another one(the clicker), which in my opinion isn't any better. :-? The only thing I can think of that the clicker will do good for is Agility, since while running around out there it's a bit hard to focus completely on the dog, yell out "GOOD DOG" and save your energy too. The clicker could help with that, each time the dog goes over each obstical or does a right turn then the click would tell them what they did was good too!! :D

[Guest Anonymous]

newfiemom napisał(a):

The clicker doesn't have a bad day.

:lol: :lol: that made me laugh.

I understand what your sayin... makes sense... but ( :roll: I know I know, I said I'd try and be more open minded, but you gota hear my side of this too :lol: :roll: ) I don't normally train my dog if I'm in a bad mood, and if I get in a bad mood or frustrated, that means training's over, and I usually just go throw the ball for him a bit, or just put him outside with his toy.
Thanks for your replies Newf! I really appretiate it!

Praise isn't allowed in competitive Obediance? :o I didn't know that!! Learn somethin new every day!! :)

[Guest Anonymous]

Thanks... I'll see if I can find the books.
But we don't have any book stores around here, and the one in PG doesn't sell many good dog training books :-?

[gooeydog]

I don't train with a clicker, but I do do a lot of "marker training" with the dogs (I use "good!" instead of "yes", just a personal preference), especially Annie (the reason I don't use a clicker is basically because I'm uncoordinated and forgetful, would likely either forget to bring the clicker or click the wrong thing :oops: ). The reason for the marker training over other types is that it makes it easier for the dog to understand when they're doing right, because it marks the EXACT moment when they start to do right. Marker trained dogs will often have better focus on their handlers and be more willing to throw out new behaviors in hopes of getting the "mark".

For example, right now I'm tryign to get Annie to do an obedience type retrieve. Clean. We had made some progress before, but I let her slide back into old habits, and when we started working at it again in june, it was horrible. She would come back with the ball, then fleanip the fuzz at my feet for a few seconds before letting me reach for it, then sometimes would try to snatch it back and run off with it... yet she REALLY wanted me to throw it for her. So, I started throwing the ball, then turning my back on her afterwards. She would come up, drop the ball a few feet off, then run over for me to get it. Still I ignored. Then she picked it up and brought it a bit closer. I marked as she moved towards me with the ball. She dropped it a bit off still. I went back to ignoring. She picked it up again and dropped it at my feet. I marked her moving closer, and her dropping it at my feet. We did this about 5 times, and she was bringing it right back and dropping it at my feet, with me only marking her dropping it. The next time we were out, a couple weeks ago, I again only marked when she dropped it by my feet. Then the next time, I ignored when she dropped it. In an attempt to get my attention, she grabbed the ball and nudged my hand with it in her mouth. I marked. The next time, same course of action. Next time, she brought it RIGHT back and nudged my hand. This was in only two lessons, spaced a couple weeks apart, so you can imagine if we worked at it every day for several weeks solid. We went from no retrieve to close to a retrieve to hand.

It's not like a food bribe, because the dog will work, food/other reward or not. I train Annie on toy/tug rewards, and only take the toy with me about 1/2 the time (even when I have the toy, it often stays tucked away until she's done some stuff first, because the toy makes her a bit edgy if we work with it for a long time). The rest of the time, she works completely on praise and play with me. What marker training does is to condition your dog to wanting to perform the desired behavior, and once they're conditioned to that pattern, they will almost always try to follow it. Prior to the marker training, Annie was an "eff off, I've got better things to do!!!" kind of dog. She didn't CARE whether I was ready to kill her, it meant nothing to her. Now though, me getting fed up and walking off during a training session is a major fiasco for her because it means the end of "the game".

[Guest Anonymous]

shara-- do what ever you feel comftable in!! i personally can't use clickers.. ( duh lol ) But Wehn justin gets back he is going to train Zoey with the clicker ( a different lady at petsmart will train her with clicker )

so good luck inwhat ever you choose to do! Good luck Coaly Moley!

[Aroura]

Go read my post on "teach your dog to learn", that kind of learning is easiest taught with a clicker, because the click marks the behavior more solidly than voice praise. You say "Yes!!!" and all your dog is hearing is your voice, which is what it hears for everything you do, the click is ONLY used to mark behavior, that way the dog associates it more strongly with what it is doing being good.
I'd never used one until last week, but Montie is jumping in leaps and bounds with it, he is learning so quickly.
Just as you don't use food rewards every time your dog obeys, you don't use the clicker every time. You ONLY use the clicker when you are going to treat, what it is marking is the behavior, often in shaping behaviors the dog ends the behavior before you can get the treat to its mouth, thats where the clicker comes in, as a secondary reinforcer.
Why don't you have a chat to your trainer about it? I'm sure they'd be able to explain it all to you, you don't have to use it if you don't want to, but please don't let your stubborness get in the way of Coals training.

[Carolk9s]

You're terribly young to be so close minded. Coals reaction to the sound of the clicker should guide you, I am a strong advocate of using WHAT WORKS.
I taught Candy the concept of the weave poles in ONE DAY using a clicker. I'm talking straight line weaves, not offset or tilted. One day. It took me months to train both Jesse and Brittany on weaves since I started with the channel method.
I even retrained Brittany using a clicker, she knew the stuff before but once I started using the clicker, her attitude was better, her responses were much faster.
As others have said, the clicker is an INSTANT never changing marker with which to tell your dog yes that is what I wanted you to do.

[Guest Anonymous]

Thanks for your replies guys...

You're terribly young to be so close minded.

Carol, I'm not "so close minded" otherwise I wouldn't have been even considering using a clicker. But I have always thought of it as very useless. But i didn't know a lot about it either, your replies give me more hope towards it, and i think I will give it a try tonight! :D I will try what our trainer taught us last class, and see how things go!
I will let you guys know how the lesson goes tonight, and if it looks hopeful to use it or not. :D Thanks!

[Aroura]

Well, if its free then where's the harm in using it? :wink:
Monties clicker is worth its weight in gold, I've never tried Lily on the clicker yet but after observing Monties reaction (he's learning whole new tricks in less than a day!) I'm definatly going to buy Lily one of her own. :D

[Guest Anonymous]

I tired him out 2nite with it. Did what she told us about "loading the clicker" and just basiclly teaching him it means a reward and stuff, that he did good. Didn't seem very exciting :lol: But I'm sure I'll notice somethin more once he learns what it means so I can start doin other things with it with him :D

[courtnek]

I've said before that Freebee retrieved naturally when a puppy, however, getting her to drop the ball was an ongoing issue. She would bring it to me, then hold on to it until I pried it outta her mouth to throw it again.

I dont have a clicker, but I used a clicking voice sound (tongue clicking on bottom of mouth) to teach her that when she got back with the ball she has to DROP IT at my feet. If it rolls away, oh well, she has to go get it and drop it at my feet again, until it's sitting unmoving at my feet.

The boundary is the sidewalk in the back yard. The ball has to be at my feet on the sidewalk, or she has to go get it and bring it back again. I wish I had a clicker, it might have been easier, but they can definitely detect
frustration and anger in your voice. If I "clicked" and she didnt bring the ball back, I turned around and went inside. Play time is NOW OVER...

It's her favorite game, and I use it for training all the time.

[Aroura]

Great to hear you're giving it a go Hazel :D