courtnek Posted October 10, 2003 Posted October 10, 2003 For anyone who didnt hear the story... Roy was supposedly atacked by one of his trained tigers during a show on Friday. He grabbed Roy by the back of the head and dragged him off stage. His neck was punctured, and he is in critical condition... All along people have been saying that the tiger "attacked him", which has NEVER happened in the 30 years that he has been training tigers. NO ANIMAL has ever mauled him before.... They have the tiger quarantined in the hotel, but the doctors could not understand why the tiger didnt kill him. Just grabbed him and dragged him off stage....also, Roy's last words before being taken to the hospital were "dont hurt the cat....not his fault..." The doctors investigated the bite wounds, and then went through all the video tapes that were taken (the room and everything in it is under constant surveillance) and figored it out. Roy had tripped onstage, and started to fall....Seigfried and the handlers came running out...the tiger grabbed Roy's arm, and then when he fell, the tiger would not let go. Roy smacked him on the nose with the mike. He then grabbed Roy by the neck (like he woulod grab a kitten or another tiger in need) and dragged him offstage, then released him when he thought Roy was safe....from the puncture wounds in his neck and the video's they have determined that the tiger was actually trying to help him....stop his fall by grabbing his arm, and then take him somewhere safe after he had fallen and couldnt get up.... the doctors said the "bites" were in line with the amount of pressure a cat would put on another by grabbing it by the nape....only Roy didnt have a nape.....the cat didnt know that and was trying to protect him the only way he knew how....by dragging him away by the nape of his neck to safer ground.... Somehow, ROY knew...as shown by his last uttered sentence before going unconcious..... FYI - no one in the Seigried and Roy show has ever been injured by an animal, and those animals are treated better than some people treat their children....and that's documented.... I hope Roy pulls through. He;s still in critical condition, but gets a little better every day. Quote
Carolk9s Posted October 10, 2003 Posted October 10, 2003 Thanks for posting this courtnek. While no one could truly know what was going through the tigers mind, obviously if he had wanted to kill or maul Roy Horn, he could have and probably would have. Being that he did not is a testament to not only his training but more importantly the love and respect he has received all his life from the team. Lets remember that there are animal activists who believe that ALL dogs should be 'set free' and no one should own them, train them, fence them, leash them etc etc. Yes I realize one is a domesticated animal and one is not. I remember once at an obedience trial we were advised to padlock our crates if we could not be near our dogs at all times as there had been some 'incidents' of dogs being turned loose on a show ground. I too prefer to see wild animals remain in the wild but the white tigers would not survive in the wild and they are treated with love, respect and kindness in this particular environment. It's not perfect, it's not a perfect world. If I felt at all that these animals were taught with fear and/or pain, I would feel totally different and Roy Horn would probably be dead. Quote
courtnek Posted October 10, 2003 Author Posted October 10, 2003 Thank you Carol...S&R's tigers are raised from kittenhood, and basically spoiled rotten by most peoples standards... :lol: :lol: they live in their house, they also have a HUGE ground where they canrun free, and be tigers. at night. some of them come in and get spoiled (mostly by Roy) who uses them as pillows IN HIS LIVING ROOM!!!! There are documented pictures of Roy LAYING on them!!! AND THEY LOVE IT!!! Which is why I was so surprised to hear one of them hurt him... Quote
Guest Anonymous Posted October 10, 2003 Posted October 10, 2003 I too was very surprised to hear about the attack. And I have seen his show 4 times! Right in front twice, and for ages I was like obessed with tigers and their show..and their breeding program. They have succeed ten fold with breeding white tigers where zoos and other professionals have failed. That alone I think gives great credit to the type of home they are providing for the tigers. But I also think that though the tigers are living amongst humans like..pets (for lack of a better word). They are still wild animals and I think they belong in the wild, not on stage. JMO..but I also think if they really loved the tigers like they say they do they would spend some of the money they make (and they do have LOTS) and try to put some of these beautys back into the wild..where they belong. Some great pictures of them and the tigers.... Quote
DogPaddle Posted October 10, 2003 Posted October 10, 2003 Anytime you deal with large animals wild or domesticated there is a chance of a misunderstanding or accident. I'm sure working with these cats as long as they have that Siegfried and Roy and whatever other staff they have are aware of this. I hope Roy is ok as well. I once got to "walk" a tiger. I applied for a job at some wildlife education place. They take restricted animals that have been confiscated, they were big on the animals always being "wild" not "domesticated", they just had an understanding with their handlers - as with all understandings their can be misunderstandings. I say "walk" because this huge tiger was wearing a regular flat buckle leather collar and I was leading it on a regular pink nylon lead. He didn't walk out front like a dog might, he followed right behind my thigh, he kept nudging me and making a chuffing noise - the handler indicated this was because he liked me - good thing huh! Quote
Sanvean Posted October 10, 2003 Posted October 10, 2003 I don't know what the tiger's intentions were...but all I have to say is, if my Janie-cat were 600 pounds, there is NO WAY you would catch me anywhere near the little beast! LOL! Quote
xavierandrea Posted October 10, 2003 Posted October 10, 2003 I beleive that the tiger was trying to help him. I went on a site yesterday and the people there were saying he got what he deserved. Which is soooo wrong in my eyes. Just as any of our " pets " protect us the tiger felt it was his main goal to protect and help Roy. I sure hope he recovers 110%. Quote
Peng1zrule Posted October 10, 2003 Posted October 10, 2003 I can't beleive people would feel Roy was at fault for this attack! On another note...USA today had the new york man on there, talking about how and why he kept those animals in his apartment...sure wish I could've watched it...ANYway, I hope roy pulls through! Quote
Aonir Posted October 10, 2003 Posted October 10, 2003 My thoughts on this is :: I hope they don't kill the tiger for this incident :( I believe that since Roy was into breeding wild animals, he knew their was a high chance of him getting hurt. I think Roy might have (or SHOULD have) prepared himself for an incident such as this. Tigers are wild animals, it takes hundreds of years to domesticate an animal, not one humans lifetime. We still can't completely control dogs insticts as wolves. "If it moves, its dinner!" I think once Roy is healed(I hope he does ok) that he won't see his tigers any differently. He'll have a little fear, but I hope he sees it as a reminder that tigers ARE wild animals after all. And one man can 'start' to make a difference, but he can't do it alone. I, however, disagree with using the tigers as entertainment to people.. But that's just me. Personally, I LOVE tigers. Especially white tigers. To Roy: Don't stop loving Tigers!! Quote
Guest Anonymous Posted October 10, 2003 Posted October 10, 2003 I have never seen the S&R show, but have always wanted to very badly. I LOVE tigers, and any wild animal at that, I have such respect for them. I'm not 100% sure of what to think, but I'm more on the side that the tiger did try to save him. If the tiger was seaking to really hurt Roy, I'm sure he would have done it. I do agree that they should be using some of their money to help get these tigers back in the wild though. There are so few tigers left in the world. I don't know if anyone ever heard of the Tasmanian Tiger (or "Tasmanian Wolf"). It's an extinct animal now, and one I had studied and have a great love for. They were amazing animals, but since they were hunted by man, mainly because they kept killing livestock in Tazmania, the last one ever seen was in a zoo. In a zoo. That devistates me. A wild animal shouldn't completely disapear like that, 'pecially because of humans, nevermind the last one being captive. If the tigers ever died out, I would really hate for the last one to not know what it's like to be truly wild. If they love their tigers so much, they should be helping to rebuild them back in the wild, not just the white tiger too. But all speices of tiger, it's so sad that there's so few left in the world today :cry: In case anyone is interested, I just did a search on the Tasmanian Tiger/Wolf, because I haven't read about them for years and wanted to refresh my memory about. I found some great pics, check it out! They were able to open their jaws REALLY wide :o Oh, and i was mistaken, found something that said they thought the last one was killed in captivity, but later a male was discovred and accidently killed. But still... Oh, and sorry to change the subject :oops: But I had almost forgotten about the Tazzy Tiger Wolf, and thought everyone might find it interesting. :D Quote
abker17 Posted October 10, 2003 Posted October 10, 2003 I agree wholeheartedly with Shara, I don't think the tiger ment to hurt him at all. He was just trying to help him. :-? If the tiger is PTS I'm gonna be really upset. :x :cry: :x Shara: Those Tasmanian Tiger/Wolves are really cool, and sorta wierd looking. :o That is really freaky: :o Quote
Guest Anonymous Posted October 10, 2003 Posted October 10, 2003 Abker, That's my pic on Msn right now, it's my fave one! WAY too creepy! :lol: :D :D Quote
abker17 Posted October 10, 2003 Posted October 10, 2003 :lol: Oh! thanks for reminding me, my messenger is turned off! :wallbash: GRRR I always forget.......... :x :-? Quote
Guest Anonymous Posted October 10, 2003 Posted October 10, 2003 HazelNutMeg" If they love their tigers so much, they should be helping to rebuild them back in the wild, not just the white tiger too. But all speices of tiger, it's so sad that there's so few left in the world today :cry: I totally agree! Quote
courtnek Posted October 10, 2003 Author Posted October 10, 2003 but save him?...or he is down and now he is prey?...I know which my money is on.. K, I have to disagree. Yes, they are wild animals, and yes, we can never know what they are really thinking, however, if he considered Roy prey, he would have killed him, right then and there. He already had him by the neck, and that's how tigers kill their prey. A deep and savage bite to the spinal cord, to immobilze it, and then they basically eat their prey alive. Sorry if that's too graphic. If he had wanted to kill Roy, he could have, easily. He had enough time to drag him off the stage, to an area backstage, where he then let him go and stood over him (according to the videos and siegfreid) until the staff set off the fire extinguishers to scare him away. At which point he ran into his own cage. Also, although he grabbed Roy's arm, there was mo mention of his teeth ever breaking flesh, which they would have if it was an attack... Siegfried saw the whole thing, and agrees that the tiger was actually trying to help, and also confused by all the noise and the panic. Roy cant talk yet, but he talks to Siegfreid with hand signals, and head nods, and has basically determined Roy was correct in requesting that no one hurt the cat. Roy himself feels that he was not attacked.... As far as returning them to the wild, they dont return their stage cats (they are too spoiled, and would probably not make it in the wild) but they do contribute lots of money to the Wildlife Associations worldwide to rehome animals to the wild. That's another one of the reasons everyone respects them. Of course, the story may change again in the next few days. When/If Roy is able to talk, he will certainly tell his side of the event. Quote
Guest Anonymous Posted October 10, 2003 Posted October 10, 2003 Here's a great link about Roy Horn and his life with the tigers.... worth the read! http://www.cnn.com/2003/SHOWBIZ/10/07/roy.attacked.ap/ Quote
Guest Anonymous Posted October 11, 2003 Posted October 11, 2003 courtnek napisał(a): As far as returning them to the wild, they dont return their stage cats (they are too spoiled, and would probably not make it in the wild) but they do contribute lots of money to the Wildlife Associations worldwide to rehome animals to the wild. That's another one of the reasons everyone respects them. I never knew they made contributes and stuff, and now that they do, I take back what I said about that they SHOULD do all that, cuz apparently they do :lol: And yeah, I guess if their animals were spoiled they wouldn't make it in the wild. But ya never know, the tiger just might like the spoiled life better :wink: Quote
courtnek Posted October 11, 2003 Author Posted October 11, 2003 But ya never know, the tiger just might like the spoiled life better :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: what cat WOULDN'T??? I'd be AFRAID of my cat if he was 600 lbs... and the spoiled life? OH YEAH, They LOVE it...cats like things easy. They dont want to do anything more difficult than cleaning themselves.... :lol: :lol: Quote
courtnek Posted October 11, 2003 Author Posted October 11, 2003 On a serious note, it would be just WRONG to try to put these cats back in the wild...they have been raised since weaning by S&R...people are an intracle part of their lives, they have never lived without them. They are very attached to S&R, they are part of the cats "family unit"..... you take them away, and they would probably not survive...not just because of lack of hunting skills, but because tgheir whole lives have had humans in them. They love S&R...it would be like taking my cat and throwing him out on the street, yea, he might make it...would he be happy? I doubt it....he would remember being loved, cared for, and catered to...like S&R's tigers...Is it right to do that? I cant answer that. But it's done, and the welfare of the cats has to be looked after... Quote
Guest Mutts4Me Posted October 11, 2003 Posted October 11, 2003 First, I want to link to the original thread from the "In A Day" forum: http://forum.dogomania.com/viewtopic.php?t=8824 Then, in regards to the Release issue, it's really hard. I fully support wildlife rehabilitation when an animal is in its native habitat. I don't believe in keeping wild animals as pets. But when you have lions and tigers in the US, they have no natural habitat to be released into. So any abused/neglected lion or tiger has to go to a place like this http://www.turpentinecreek.org (which I also linked to in the original thread). So perhaps the baby tigers should be sent to India and Siberia? Okay, then what? Take them into the forest and bid them farewell? Unfortunately, no. There are re-introduction efforts in tigers' natural habitats, and they don't do so well. Both because training predators to be predators is hard, and because of the base reason that tigers are having problems currently: man. Destruction of habitat and poaching are diminishing the tigers, and the more tigers you put out there, the more killing there's going to be. So wild tigers are at serious risk unless and until we can figure something out. And until then, we have to rely on zoos and other responsible breeders to keep the tiger alive. Did anyone see the Animal Planet special, "Living With Tigers"? It's the story of two guys who take two zoo-raised tiger cubs to Africa, Yes, Africa, and teach them to hunt their own food and survive in the wild. They've created a 90,000 acre refuge which they stocked with wildlife, and they're hoping to start a new tiger population in Africa, since efforts in their native lands have failed. It's been going on since 1999, and they're making headway. Anyone interested in this can check out the website here: http://www.tigerfreedom.org/ I don't know how I feel about the introduction of a foriegn species into Africa, but it is an awe-inspiring story, and it does give hope to the revival of the tigers. Quote
Guest Anonymous Posted October 11, 2003 Posted October 11, 2003 hello everyone, remember me?? I'm back albeit shortly. Nice to see some old names still chatting. :D It's ArtulDodger, I can't log in properly. :cry: I can't read the Roy and Tiger saga without adding my 2 cents. I have to agree with K on this one, the tiger was reacting to a primal urge to pounce on what had fallen in front of it. Years of conditioning by R+S made it pause before doing any serious damage. I think if the staff with the fire extinguishers had not been there Roy would have become a sequined smorgasboard after afew more moments. Yes, captive bred tigers are more docile and trustworthy than their wild counterparts but they are still finely tuned predators with awesome power and reflexes, even a housecat bred over thousands of years to be human friendly will pounce on your foot or hand if it feels that way inclined. Also, tigers in the wild do not form lifelong partnerships, they are solitary hunters that operate over a huge range or territory. They are the nomads of the cat world. So, I cant think of a more alien environment for a tiger than to live in a plush mansion with spa baths and sofas and a bunch of other tigers and the odd flamboyant, quirkily dressed human. I think Siegfied and Roy's tigers would be very confused and I wouldn't be surprised if they were dosed up on the feline equivalent of prozac. As for the tiger program in Africa???? I sincerely hope they are just going to breed the animals there for release in Asia. OOOOhhh yeah, I've missed ranting on dogomania 8) 8) Quote
Guest Anonymous Posted October 11, 2003 Posted October 11, 2003 Just noticed something about my post...Just so it's clear when I said returning the tigers to where they belong. I meant saving the already wild ones...by having areas declared protected. Not by returning his show cats, I don't think those tigers would stand a chance. Quote
courtnek Posted October 11, 2003 Author Posted October 11, 2003 yes, tigers in the wild are solitary. However, these tigers have never been in the wild, they have been raised in groups by S&R...since birth. They stsill have the instincts of a tiger, obviously, just like housecats. However, both S&R are known for playing with the tigers, laying down with them, swimming with them. Seeing one of them go down in front of him would not be that unusual, since that's part of the way they are trained. Siegfried was behind the stage when Roy started to fall, and saw the cat grab him by the arm, as if to stop his fall. His arm was in no way mauled, I would think he would have been bitten if he was under attack. At that point, according to S, all hell broke loose. He and the handlers all came running out, people in the audience were screaming, the cat became paniced and dragged Roy off stage, accoeding to S, he let him go backstage and that was when they set off the fire extinguishers. I dont believe the handlers did anything wrong, they didnt know the tigers intentions, but I also dont believe he would have killed Roy. Like I told K, he COULD have killed him with the first bite on his neck, but he didnt. The wounds werent deep enough for a kill bite. I still maintain that this was an accident. Their history with the animals backs me up, since none of them have ever been hurt by the cats before. Also, in the article where S tells this story, at one point they said it was thought that Roy had a stroke after the attack....confirmed byt the doctors, but my thought is....what if he actually had the stroke on stage? That would account for his tripping on stage (he is not clumsy) and might also account for why the cat wanted to take him somewhere safe. Perhaps the bond he has with these cats made them want to get him out of the crowds, off the stage, when he sensed that something bad had happened to his best friend..... Just my thought. I guess we wont know until Roy can tell us.... Quote
Malamum Posted October 11, 2003 Posted October 11, 2003 No one, not even Roy will ever know that the tiger was thinking - though I do believe that if it had really wanted to kill him Roy would have been dead in about 10 seconds (or less) and there would have been nothing anyone could have done. Quote
abker17 Posted October 12, 2003 Posted October 12, 2003 Ugh!!!!!!! My dad makes me so mad!!!!!!!! :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: He says that the tiger was taking him back stage to eat him. :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: And that the reason he didn't kill Roy right away was because the tiger wasn't raised in the wild. :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :evil: :evil: He read this some article by a guy he probably didn't know what the f*** he was talkin' about. OMG, will somebody please help me knock some sense into him(my dad)!!!!!!!!!!!!! Quote
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