Foster dog/cat problem

[Guest Anonymous]

I need some advice..I have a foster dog Tydo, who is a BC/AmStaff mix. He came to me by my ex leaving him here after he moved out, while I was away. I have no idea about the dog's background, where he came from but I assume he was a stray or was from the local SPCA...but I am not sure. He is a very nice dog, friendly, willing to learn, has basic training, okay with my other dogs (he does tend to pick on the lower status dog, Jaeden my pupper) and he is great on leash. However he has a serious cat issue, which I have been trying to work out with him through redirection. I thought he and I were making leaps and bounds with this training, because he was no longer trying to chase the cats (I own two indoor/mostly outdoor cats, a love two ferals).

My cats have been living mostly outside during the day and in the garage during the night. And when Tydo is outside (couple hours a day) when I am working, I leave the window open for them and they come inside with Jaeden (who is completely trustworthy with them..but they also have get away routes in case). Right now that's all fine and good, because it's still very warm up here. But the weather is going to change fast, and it has already snowed once (but it's much warmer now).

Today Tydo was out with the other dogs in the yard, and no matter what I always sit outside with them and watch them. I was sitting there and I had not noticed Luna (my cat) had snuck up near me. Normally she will not venture over the fence, but I assume because I had not said hello to her this morning, because she was no where to be found. She decided to take the chance. I did not even notice her until Tydo did, and chased and tried grabbed her. She is fine, she got away before I was able to reach them. I corrected Tydo but I am really displeased with him..Im sure you can understand.

I do not know what to do with him. I refuse to leave the cats out much longer because it will be cold here fast. And cold means -25 to -40. And anything near 0 is unfair to the cats, they cannot be living outside when it's cold. They are older and they deserve their comfort. But I also think Tydo deserves a home, and I have been trying to find him one. He is online in different places, is listed with a local rescue, and there are flyers every where about him. But no interest so far.

I don't want to take him to the SPCA (because it's a kill shelter), but I don't want him hurting my cats or having my cats hurting because they have to live around him. I have asked around and looked for another foster home as well, but there are none that can take him. :(

I really love him, but my cats come first.

Does anyone have any suggestions? Any ideas?

Thanks a lot!

[courtnek]

They need to be properly introduced - indoors. I have always had both.
Dogs will chase anything that runs, or tries to run, and an unfamiliar dog that just bounds up to the cat is going to make the cat try to escape.

Instead of trying to stomp his natural instincts. bring the cats indoors and
put a baby gate up between two rooms. Dog on one side, cats on the other. This allows them to get to know one another without injury to either.
They can look, sniff and peer through the gate, until they get used to each other.

It took about 4 days for Alex to get used to PushyCat. Once he got to sniff him, and got familair with him, and used to him, he stopped trying to chase him down. Once PushyCat felt comfortable, he took over supreme control of the animaldom and had both dogs doing what HE wanted.
(cats have a way with that - lol)

since yours are somewhat feral, it may take longer. But it will work out

:D

[Guest Anonymous]

I've have tried this, but maybe I will try again. My cats aren't feral really, they just prefer being outside during the warm weather. Give them a blanket by the heater and they will stay there all day and night! They are spoiled..they might have feral summers though. Lol.

I hope I am not stomping his instincts..I am simply using a tennis ball to direct his prey drive towards the cats..to it. Redirecting really. He was doing great inside and outside, until today. I think maybe because I am usually using the ball with him when a cat is around. Then the cat appeared, and I stupidly had no ball. Im really sick and tired right now so I am hoping this is making sense! damm flu!

Thanks for the advice though. I will try it out and see if we can work through this. I think we can, I was just set back today with his chasing of Luna.

[courtnek]

DONT LOSE FAITH!! It takes a while, one day with the gate wont do it

Dogs and cats are NOT narural enemies,,, they just need time to get used
to each other. The gate has to be there until they have accepted each other,,,,, and it could take days...

[Guest Anonymous]

I've been trying for more then a month actually. But I will not loose faith yet. I would like to work through it because it will help his search for a forever home as well! I will keep trying..but I might be back for more information and advice!

[Peng1zrule]

sadly, with an animal aggressive dog, sometimes things just don't work out. you could try controlling the dog more...always in a crate, in a gated area, on a leash...cats are harder to control but it is possible (i suppose) it sounds like he has a high prey drive and I would not reccommend anyone, except the very experienced to have "prey" animals and prey driven animals at the same time. I have Fang, and through about two years of training and careful precautions, I can have my cats AND my dogs inside at the same time.

[Guest Anonymous]

I agree, Tydo has high prey drive for sure. As does one of my other dogs, however he has learnt to not chase my cats..but I would not say the same about strange cats. Tydo, I think has learned his behaviour from his older owner (I assume) because I notice if you make a "pshhh" or whatever noise you make to scare off a cat...he reacts. He will run all over the house, looking for the cats. He has not learned this behaviour from me. I only noticed when I did it to the puppy a few weeks ago, when we were playing.

Needless to say, I know Tydo might never be trustworthy around cats or small animals. But I am hoping he can be controlable. Right now he isn't, I thought he was making some progress, but after his little chasing and trying to catch my cat..I see he isn't.

I have decide to install a door between my house and front room/mud room and have that room be the "cat room". It's heated, warm and they can have their stratching post in there and so on. I rent my house, so I am limitted to what mods, I can make but my landlord has ok'ed the door..thankfully! I would just keep Tydo in a bedroom when I am working but, he has proven untrustworthy in small spaces. To the point he ate threw a crate and tried to eat through a wall. He does fine roaming the living room though.

Just to be safe, I am going to install metal to the bottom of the door..in case he decides to eat his way through to the kitties.

[imported_Cassie]

I can certainly emphatize with you on this topic!
I have a Rottweiler which I adopted at 1 year or age...she was unsocialized & very dominant etc. (it was a horrible situation for this poor dog; she was confiscated by the SPCA) any way...she also has a very high prey drive and I own 3 cats...it was really really rough at first, but, I got her used to the cats by putting up baby gates so the cats would have their "special areas" to get away from my Rottie. I did not force the animals to see each other..my Rottie was especially bad, she would lunge at the baby gate if she caught site of one of the cats. I put items around with the scent of my dog for the cats to smell and the scent of my cats for my dog to smell before I really allowed them to start seeing each other through the baby gate.
after a few months the cats of course started getting nosy and would come over to the baby gate and stare at the Rottie...she would stare back while drooling. Once things seemed calm and my Rottie was able to walk past the baby gate while one of my cats was sitting there..I then knew it was time for the gates to come down. I have not had any problems since, they all live in harmony and the cats will even sleep in bed with me and my dogs now.
You really will require alot of patience and of course obedience training. If your dog does chase your cat the worst thing you can do is start screaming for your dog to stop...cats are pretty good at getting up some thing to get away...if you start yelling for your dog to stop...most times when they are intent on the chase they will choose to ignore you or perhaps the more you yell and get excited the dog may even think you are joining in on the hunt. I have never been successful at redirecting my Rotties attention when her prey drive is in full force...a treat just does not come close to the thrill of the chase.
Every time your dog is calm around the cat give the dog treats and a little extra lovin' pat your cat also while you are patting your dog and massage...now massage is a great way to calm and relax a tense animal...I have done this so my Rottie will realize the cats are allowed in my "personal space". I am so amazed at times especially when I give my cats a peice of hamburg and my Rottie will not go near the cats while they are enjoying their treat...if they leave a scrap behind then its fair game and she will dive in and gobble it up.
Good luck! :wink:

[Guest Anonymous]

Thanks for the great advice Cassie. It's encouraging to hear that others have been able to work this problem out. I haven't been yelling or anything when they do give chase, I will just calmed catch the dog, give the look at me command and say no. It worked for my other dog, great. Tydo is very smart, and seems easy enough to train. I get the feeling from him that his previous owners didn't bother trying to teach him manners around cats, once he showed that he did not like them. But I cannot be sure, since I really do not know.

I know cats are extremely good at getting themselves out of trouble, however my one cat Apollo...is well a little not-so-smart. He will not run from a dog, he simply lies down and freezes. That scares the crap out of me because with Brooklyn (my dog) this is fine, but with Tydo it will only make his catching easier. Apollo simply does not think dogs are a threat, he will go to a dog (yes even strange ones) before a human. I don't know whats wrong him!!! I wish I knew how to post a video clip online, because I would love to show you guys a clip of him with my dogs. It's really cute, but also very interesting because cats are not normally this dog friendly.

I wish cats were more trainable because then it would be easier! Or that I could install cat walks along the top of ceiling for the cats..lol. But my pets arent spoiled!

My trainer told me to use water and spray Tydo if he hangs around the areas (baby gates, doors) where the cats are behind..but that seems wrong to me. I was thinking it would be better if... I put him a down/stay (for a couple mins only) if he does that, then release him and see if he does back, if he does then repeat it. If he doesn't then praise him of course. Does that sound better? or does anyone have a better suggestion?

[imported_Cassie]

Some cats.... :roll:
I have a friend whose cats think every dog they meet is a new friend. When I take my Rottie over to her house I keep her on lead...I find as long as I am calm my Rottie remains calm...I will walk her over and let her sniff the cat...on the first few occasions she has tried to grab the cat...I firmly tell her "no" and we walk away...my friends cat will just stay where it is with a baffled look on its face. It's hard when you have a dog with a high prey drive and especially when they have not been properly socialized with cats...I found with my Rottie she is very aware the cats are a part of the "pack" now; and the cats have just as many if not more rights around the house than she does. I also for awhile fed my cats first in front of my Rottie...just to show her the cats have some status...I have also taken all of my 5 dogs and 3 cats and handed out peices of hamburg...I felt it was a good way to show all my animals that they are all equals in my eyes and that food comes from me....and if I can givith the food, I can also taketh away... :lol:
I would definately when out doors keep your dog on lead when around the cats, when you see your friendly kitty... walk your dog calmly over to the cat and give them both treats. My Rottie will still try to chase my cats out doors also...when she catches them (they have no fear of her now) she usually just wants to play with them, she will take her nose and push the cats around the yard. I have also tried taking a ball and throwing it in the opposite direction to get my Rottie to chase that and release that pent up energy and encourage her prey drive to other objects instead of my precious cats...you can't stop a dog from displaying its prey drive...you can only encourage them to display it in a good way....if that makes sense... :o
As for spraying your dog with water....you could certainly try that. I havent tried that myself...
I just keep my patience and know there will be set backs from time to time...my Rottie now perfers the company of cats to other dogs....and she plays well with them...another friend of mine has a 7 month old kitten, when I take my Rottie over to her house the kitten and my Rottie play for hours...the kitten will stalk my Rottie,...then the kitten jumps on my Rottie after that its chase and play...kitten chases dog ...dog chase kitten...my Rottie will even grab the kittens toys and entice the kitten to try to jump up and grab it from her mouth...she turns her head side ways each time the kitten jumps...that way the kitten is sure to miss while prolonging the game.
My recipe for a good cat + dog relationship...patience - don't hurry things let the dog and cats get used to each other in the house. Be sure to have good obedience skills with your dog, I really like your idea of having your dog lay down for the cats...a dog can't do much attacking from a down position. Follow your own instincts; watch how your animals respond to each other...it can take a long time....some times up to a year before you can fully trust them with each other. Be sure you are calm (as you said you are) and expect things to be a little different when out side of the house.

[imported_Cassie]

I was thinking it would be better if... I put him a down/stay (for a couple mins only) if he does that, then release him and see if he does back, if he does then repeat it. If he doesn't then praise him of course

Quote by ThePoutyPitbull

Hey you were on the right track with the "down" "stay"...since it has been 3 years since I have gone through this "hunting kitty" phase with my Rottie...I thought I would do a little research to see if there was any other suggestions to offer rather than my life experiences.... :lol:
I just wanted to add, if you do not feel comfortable spraying water at Tydo...then don't do it....even though your trainer suggested this to you. I some times feel that in some cases if it don't feel right; don't do it. Go with your gut instinct...you were quite right about the down and stay...I think your on the right track and you and your cats will make it through this perfectly fine.
I was reading in my Whole dog Journal (very good magazine I might add) and they have an article on Prey Drives....

A solid foundation of good manners training can also be helpful, combined with vigilance on your part. If you are out hiking with your dog and see the deer (in your case this would be your cat and your in your back yard :lol: ) and you see the deer or cat before your dog does, you can call her to you and snap the leash on. Even if she sees it first, a really reliable recall will bring her back to your side, especially if you call her pre-launch, before she is headed hell-bent-for-leather after the fleeing animal. A well trained emergency "Down!" can also save the day, even if your dog is in full stride. Many dogs will "Down" even when they won't "Come" because they can still watch the prey. Stopping the charge gives the dog's arousal level and adrenaline time to recede, and you may be able to call her back from the "down" or calmly walk up to her and snap on her leash.
One of the most useful applications of the chase behavior is in conjunction with teaching your dog to come when called. Lots of dog owners make the mistake of moving toward their dogs - or even chasing after them - when they won't come. In dog language, a direct frontal approach is assertive, even aggressive, and dogs naturally move away from it. Its much more effective to do the exact opposite - run away from your dog! start playing chase/recall games with your dog. Teach your dog that come means chase me and play.
You could teach Tydo that the appearance of the cats is the cue to lie down, a dog can't chase when they are "down" or the appearance of your cats could be the cue for your dog to sit at your feet. This type of training can be difficult because the dogs are so highly motivated to chase - it is quite a challenge to convince tham that they'd rather do something else. YOu must find something highly rewarding in order to make it work....practice regularly rather than just expecting it to work in the heat of the moment.

[courtnek]

sadly, with an animal aggressive dog, sometimes things just don't work out. you could try controlling the dog more

I think I missed somethng here. Is this an aggressive chase? Mane, stalking, type of chase? Or just a "It's running so I'll chase it" type chase?

If this is a hunting chase, then yes, you will need much stricter control of the dog. Cassie's idea is the best under those circumstances. A stern down, and emergency down will be essential, and a reward much more enticing then the hunt....I was thinking this was just a "oh-boy-what-fun-it's-running!" type of chase. Like when Freebee chases my cat. The cat always escapes (and later enacts vengeange...)but to Freebee it's all the fun of the chase itself. Even if she caught him, she wouldnt do anything to him....

I apologize if I set you wrong the first time....maybe I misunderstood...

[Guest Anonymous]

courtnek...It is a chase to grab, and I don't know what he would do once if he caught the cat. He has chased the cat once before, the same cat and he cornered her. She hissed and fought back, and he just barked at her. But when she runs he tries to actually grab, bite the cat. I think he would probably hurt them, but I am not completely sure. I can have him in the room with the cats, and he will stay in a down/stay with a leash on and not move. He will remain completely focused on the cats..but he will stay put. If they are on the counter he will bark at them but nothing else, and he could get them if he wanted too. He doesn't seem to be aggressive or reactive until they move.

I think between his two breeds, Border Collie is ruling traits wise. He will stalk the other dogs, then leap and bound on them. If they move he chases, if they stay still he will lay down and stare at them. He stares a lot, which I know is common with BC's. He seems to be very reactive to movement, which again is common with BC's..correct? I honestly do not know a lot about Border Collies, but I have been trying to learn. He is very controlable, and is a very smart dog. He should be able to get over this. I truly believe that it might be from lack of socalization with cats in the past. I think that because of how reactive he is when you make any noise that he thinks means you are scaring off a cat. But of course, I also know it is related to his high prey drive.

I hope that makes it a bit more clear?

[courtnek]

very much, thank you.

BC's are famous for that stare....they are sight herders, and they use the stare to "stare down" the sheep and make them obey. Sheep are somewhat meek (usually, altho someday I'll tell you about the one that scared me half to death when I picked Laurel up) and they respond to the stare
in a submissive manner. BC's also nip at the sheeps heels when they
herd them, kinda like saying "let's go, no lagging...."altho they do not
normally break skin, the nip gets the sheep moving a little faster, and
also makes them more submissive to the dog. Their hocks are very tough
so the teeth dont penetrate.

Unfortunately, this herding drive can work against you in a household.
When they get bored, they take to herding other animals and people
around to keep their minds stimulated. And they have been known to nip at
peoples ankles while they herd them. This is a dog that does very well
learning agility, it gives their very intelligent minds something to concentrate on.

Because of the high herding/prey drive, it's unknown what would happen if he caught the cat. Depends on the particular dog, I think, but chasing is
as inherent to them as breathing. They dont injure the sheep they herd,
but the sheep are again much bigger. It sounds like he is trying to catch
the cat, not just chase it. That's part of their breeding as well. He may not mean to, but he could accidently hurt the cat if he caught it.
I think Cassies suggestion is good. A stron "down" command, reinforced
continuously through training (they actually love to be trained) and
in the house, seperate them with a gate when you're not there.
He may chill out a little now that winter is coming, the cats wont be running
outside so much, and he may become very tolerant of them.
But it will require training. Like you said, they are very intelligent and they learn quickly, but for safety's sake you need to make sure the cats
have a place to go where he cant get them. My place is the basement.
I have a baby gate secured about a foot off the floor, the cat can get under it but the dogs cant, so if they get too "playful" (the cat would say
"annoying") he has somewhere to hide....

As long as you keep an eye on him, you'll probably br ok. Just watch him.

:)

[Guest Anonymous]

Thanks for all the information. It has helped a lot. I have renewed faith that we should be able to over come Tydo's issues!