I hope this isnt "inflammatory"....

[Sanvean]

That article was the biggest piece of crap I've ever seen. The only sources are some very clearly biased people -- there is NO information from the other side, no statistics, no scientific information.

And did the guest who posted this bother to read the rebuttal? http://www.edba.org.au/responsetocouriermail.html

[Guest Mutts4Me]

Every dog is different, and it's up to people to make the right decisions. The dog has no say in what human it is placed with, now does it? So why blame the dog if it is frequently placed with irresponsible owners who want it for the wrong reasons, or don't take the time and effort to train and socialize it? That's not fair.

Pit bulls have the potential to be wonderful, devoted pets. They have the reputation of viscous, tough dogs. Sadly, the "bad dog" reputation gets more attention than the family pet capacity. It may also draw more buyers, which attracts more backyard breeders, which means more problem dogs and more problem owners (who think a $50 purebred pit puppy is a good idea), who may end up producing more problem dogs, and so on. Nasty cycle these pit bulls are in. But that's not their fault, is it? No.

So your initial question was "why do you want to own a pit bull?" Maybe you don't. Maybe you just want to rescue a dog. Maybe the dog you fall in love with happens to be a pit bull. There's a pretty good chance it would be, considering all the pit bulls in pounds across the nation. So you end up getting a pit bull, giving it a second (or third or fourth) chance at life. So then you have a dog who happens to be a pit bull.

Or maybe you do want a pit bull. Maybe you've done your homework and decided that all factors considered, a pit bull would be the best dog for you. Maybe you know that given proper care and training, a pit bull makes an energetic, loyal, and sweet companion. And you know that it's going to require a lot of running room, a lot of attention/exercise, and assertiveness on your part. And you're prepared to give it that. You're prepared to take it out and properly socialize it with children, cats, and other dogs, so that any dog-agression tendancies that may be inherent in the breed may be addressed early and overcome. You're prepared to train it and keep it mentally stimulated so that it doesn't get bored and become destructive (as bully breeds can do). You know this, and you're prepared for it. So you want a pit bull, and you're prepared to be a responsible pit bull owner. Good for you, good for the dog, and good for society. If everyoine could see the responsible pit bull owners (and therefore the good pit bulls), there wouldn't be this discussion going on right now.

Because it does depend on the owner. Not just the way they treat the dog, but whether they respect the dog for what it is. It's not enough to love and spoil a pit bull or rottweiler (etc). Certain dogs require more attention than others. Need training and socialization. I want an Akita. I love the way they look, and I love everything I read about their personalities (I've only met one in person). But I am aware that Akitas are one of these large, powerful dogs that have aggressive tendancies and therefore require special attention. I know what issues they have, and I know it may be quite some time before I'm ever prepared to own an Akita. And I'll sacrifice the chance to own one of the few purebreds I really want to own (the others being a boxer and a collie) if I don't think I can spend the proper amount of time on it. It's necessary, or else I'd end up with a dog with various issues, possibly dangerous ones, and it would be my fault.

On a side note, I'm watching Animal Precinct right now, and there's this pit bull that was abandonned in a junkyard. It has scars to indicate that it was a fighting dog, yet it was immediately friendly to the investigators that rescued it. Treated poorly and abadonned by humans, it's still affectionate. You know if you were treated like that, you'd have some serious trust issues. But this dog? None. He wags his tail and grins that bully grin, and he walks away with them. So there, that's why.

[Guest Anonymous]

Okay i know that any dog can be dangerous... you have got to stop using that as a main point of your rebuttal. Any dog can be dangerous but few dogs can be as dangerous as a pit bull. There is going to be a huge differnce to the type of injuries sustained when a person is the victim of a pit bull attack compared to most any other breed. Once a pit bull starts the attack that great tenacity you guys like so much makes them keep attacking until they are either dragged off by the owner or the person can no longer fight bak. The ability to tune out pain makes it almost impossible to defend yourself from an aggressive pit bull. There is plenty of reason to be afraid of a badly treated pit bull.
I know that they are supposed to be extremely human friendly and when i was talking about aggression from breeding i meant toward dogs, when i talk about aggression from how they are raised i mean human.
And as far as that video being a reinactment- NO WAY. the way that woman screamed and tried to pry her hand out of the dogs mouth, the look of fear and pain in her eyes. the dog lunging at her chest and face, that dog had no formal training it was trying to eat that girl.

maybe we are talkinga bout different films

[Sanvean]

pit-curious napisał(a):

Any dog can be dangerous but few dogs can be as dangerous as a pit bull.

I disagree. An attack by a German shepherd, a mastiff or just about ANY other large dog is just as dangerous, if not more.

pit-curious napisał(a):

There is going to be a huge differnce to the type of injuries sustained when a person is the victim of a pit bull attack compared to most any other breed.

Do you have any proof of this, or are you just making this assumption?

pit-curious napisał(a):

There is plenty of reason to be afraid of a badly treated pit bull.

There are plenty of reasons to be afraid of ANY badly treated dog.

I have a question for you: How many pit bulls do you KNOW? Because you seem bound and determined to prove that they're evil and dangerous, and if you were acquainted with the dogs that we know and love, I'm sure that you couldn't make that assumption.

[Rosebud]

:-?

pit-curious napisał(a):

Okay i know that any dog can be dangerous... you have got to stop using that as a main point of your rebuttal.

That is the main point! Regardless of what breed ALL dogs can be dangerous and should be raised in a responsible home that is aware of that particular breeds traits

Any dog can be dangerous but few dogs can be as dangerous as a pit bull. There is going to be a huge differnce to the type of injuries sustained when a person is the victim of a pit bull attack compared to most any other breed. Once a pit bull starts the attack that great tenacity you guys like so much makes them keep attacking until they are either dragged off by the owner or the person can no longer fight bak. The ability to tune out pain makes it almost impossible to defend yourself from an aggressive pit bull. There is plenty of reason to be afraid of a badly treated pit bull.

You have re-inforced the main point here. It's not pit bulls that are the problem, it's breeders that are breeding poor temperments, owners that are not properly educated in how to raise a pit and owners that are using the dogs for illegal activity, ie fighting.

You can not blame any particular breed for it's reputation given by the media. We would be having the same conversation about Dobermans if that was the breed of choice for these irresponsible breeders and owners right now.

The only difference in the damage that a pit does over any other breed is in HOW that dog was raised, Breed a German Shepard from an unstable line then train it to fight and be aggressive and you've got the same exact problem.

I know that they are supposed to be extremely human friendly and when i was talking about aggression from breeding i meant toward dogs, when i talk about aggression from how they are raised i mean human.

This statement acknowledges that you are aware that the pit bull has to be trained to be aggressive towards humans but that it has dog aggression.
So what is the problem, if bad breeders breed poor temperment lines you get dangerous dogs, if good breeders breed stable temperment lines you get great family dogs that will love you unconditionally, (and that means they will still love you even if you abuse them).

And as far as that video being a reinactment- NO WAY. the way that woman screamed and tried to pry her hand out of the dogs mouth, the look of fear and pain in her eyes. the dog lunging at her chest and face, that dog had no formal training it was trying to eat that girl.
maybe we are talkinga bout different films

Wow, then I guess that every realistic horror movie made must be real and not fake. That rationalization is absurb, reinactments are supposed to look real, that's how they get there point across.

:angel:

[Guest Anonymous]

like i said few breeds, obviously the molosser breeds are included in that because the pit bull is descended from them. one thing i have noted is that a good many attasks occur with mixed breeds where people take the pit bull and mixit with a dog tat DOESNT have the bite inhibitions, and is people aggressive... Cue the scary music. These dogs have all the tenacity and ability with added size and aggression. These dogs are extremely dangerous in the wrong hands. i only wish that you were the only people with pit bulls unfortunately not everyone is o intent on a well mannered dog. they like it when a dog shows aggression and praise the dog for it which makes the dog do it again. they want a dog that is on the end of its leash, its intimidating and its "so cool".

I am not directly putting you guys into this class or your dogs from what i have read in the other posts on this site there are a lot of you that take time to really train and socialize your dogs: rottnpit, gooeydog, poutypitbull, hollywood, dog lover, and others. I am not the one that is influencing the world to hate your dogs, I am telling you the things that are being spread and making note of the responses that i get. A lot of this is very educational.

[Sanvean]

i only wish that you were the only people with pit bulls unfortunately not everyone is o intent on a well mannered dog. they like it when a dog shows aggression and praise the dog for it which makes the dog do it again. they want a dog that is on the end of its leash, its intimidating and its "so cool".

I wish the folks here and people like them were the only ones with pit bulls (or any dogs!), too.

Sadly, the pit bull, because of its muscular appearance and dog-fighting history, has so much appeal to thugs and other types who want a "mean dog." That's why we need MORE responsible pit bull owners, to show the world how wonderful these dogs can be!

[Guest Anonymous]

I hate to do this..but here's some actual proof other types of dogs can inflict serious damage, and even kill people...like Pit bulls (it just kills me to type that).

A Dachshund mauls infant....

http://www.igorilla.com/gorilla/animal/2002/dachshund_attack.html

A would-be Police dog kills boy...

http://www.igorilla.com/gorilla/animal/2002/dog_attack_nebraska.html

Wolfdog mauls boy...

http://www.igorilla.com/gorilla/animal/2002/wolf_dog_attack.html

Malamute attacks five people...

http://www.igorilla.com/gorilla/animal/2002/dogs_ordered_destroyed.html

Lab attacks boy..

http://www.igorilla.com/gorilla/animal/Bad_training_causes_dog_attacks.html

Mastiffs and a Saint Bernard kill a boy...

http://www.igorilla.com/gorilla/animal/dogs_kill_8-year_old_boy.html

Jack Russells...

http://www.igorilla.com/gorilla/animal/1999/dog_led_park_attack_on_boy.html

Pomeranian kills baby...

http://www.igorilla.com/gorilla/animal/2000/dog_kills_baby_los_angeles.html

The truth really is ANY dog of ANY breed or mix, can be dangerous.

What I am not really sure of is..your arguement/point (sorry) anymore. You seem to know what is causing Pit bulls to attack, you have said it numerous times. You know the difference it seems between human and animal aggression. You know that Pit bulls are being breed with other breeds, that have guardian/protection traits. You have said you know that not all owners are like the ones you see on TV. And you have some really great ideas about BSL. So I am not trying to be rude but what is your point or what are you trying to find out now..I should ask??

[Rosebud]

:D

Sanvean napisał(a):

i only wish that you were the only people with pit bulls unfortunately not everyone is o intent on a well mannered dog. they like it when a dog shows aggression and praise the dog for it which makes the dog do it again. they want a dog that is on the end of its leash, its intimidating and its "so cool".

I wish the folks here and people like them were the only ones with pit bulls (or any dogs!), too.

Sadly, the pit bull, because of its muscular appearance and dog-fighting history, has so much appeal to thugs and other types who want a "mean dog." That's why we need MORE responsible pit bull owners, to show the world how wonderful these dogs can be!

And the place to start this:

IS NOT in BSL but in enforcement of the existing laws which make it illegal to fight any breed of dog

Education

Accurate media coverage when it really is a pit bull that did the attacking, the media should point out that this is not supposed to be typical of the breed, but is the product of irresponsible breeding and uneducated owners.

:angel:

[Guest Anonymous]

of course i know that pit bulls main problem is the owner and the breeder. by nature if they are bred right they are a good dog. but even if they are bred correctly the hand of the person they are in plays a part. they are a people-pleasing breed. and if ripping some guys arm off is what they express to the dog they want it to do, then that is what will happen.
Okay but if the video was a reinactment and the point was made with a bite trained dog, why then was the dog not biting the forearm where ther are trained to. why then did the woman not have on a bite sleeve and who in thier right mind would allow a pit bull to bite a fully exposed hand? the dog then was hit in the head rather hard i might add with a thick dowel, it hurt so it let go but when the animal control officer tried to run around the guy that was trying to help her the dog renewed its attack. he then jumped on its hind legs and started biting her in the chest and neck area. the dog was struck agian and then the owner finally cgot it back into the house. while the office limped away to her truck moaning and crying. I have seen protection and shutzhund trained dogs, this wasnt one of them.

As far as how many pit bullsi have seen quite a few, but i have seen both friendly and vicous ones. I have had a few try to come through a kennel wall to try and get a hold. I have seen others that it totally dumbfounded me why they could ever be called killers. So i know that there are bad dogs out there. not every pit bull deserves a second chance. to be honest there are som out tere that probably shouldnt have a first chance to breed. I am not looking to have a mass euthanization or anything like that BUt i want rules and guidelines for anyone that wants one of these dogs. Over the last 50 years this dogs has taken a nosedive that defies belief. from the poster child of the military in the world war and the tv sets of "our Gang" to the most despised, hated and feared, dog out there. its not fair.

[Guest Anonymous]

Pit Bulls are not like other dogs. you guys defend them like they are but they are not. there are a lot of special rules to follow and special things that you should or shouldnt do with them. most people shouldnt own one, and yet everyone does. the reason the dogs are in the state they are is because dog fighting was made illegal. when fighting was just looked down on, people that wanted to do it could still get lessons on the proper care, training, and love of these dogs. when it was forced underground the dogs suffered. because the people that god interested were people that knew nothing about the dogs, they knew about guns, gangs, drugs, and intimidation. with noone to teach them the right ways they learned from the lore of the media...most of wich is total BS. the dogs were raise like ruthles killers and that is what they learned, the dogs didnt recieve love and compassion they were fed and fought. they were treated for injuries, they werent valued housepets or companions. the gameness of the dogs was replaced with pure aggression, against man and dog. the thugs didnt know the difference so they started to breed for aggression and did stupid stuff to get it to surface: feed them gunpowder/ hot sauce, let them kill smaller animals for the taste of blood, hired strangers to beat them for people aggression, etc....

and its a vicious cycle, the more they hype up how bad the dogs are the more thug type people want to have one, the more they breed the worse the dogs are the, the more they are in the news.

[Rosebud]

:-?

Okay but if the video was a reinactment and the point was made with a bite trained dog, why then was the dog not biting the forearm where ther are trained to. why then did the woman not have on a bite sleeve and who in thier right mind would allow a pit bull to bite a fully exposed hand? the dog then was hit in the head rather hard i might add with a thick dowel, it hurt so it let go but when the animal control officer tried to run around the guy that was trying to help her the dog renewed its attack. he then jumped on its hind legs and started biting her in the chest and neck area. the dog was struck agian and then the owner finally cgot it back into the house. while the office limped away to her truck moaning and crying. I have seen protection and shutzhund trained dogs, this wasnt one of them.

Can't answer that since I have not seen this particular video. I am not saying that somewhere, somebody could have actually video taped an actual pit bull attacking someone, but this is not the norm and the video would begin by stating that this was a true event and the quality of the film would be obvious that it was a home video.

Now on a note about it being a re-inactment, the dog would obviously be throughly trained and the blood and gore would have been done by make-up artists and/or computer animation.

and its a vicious cycle, the more they hype up how bad the dogs are the more thug type people want to have one, the more they breed the worse the dogs are the, the more they are in the news.

This still goes back to educating the public and breeders. You can't rightfully dictate who can own what here, that will only lead to more dictator type laws, you have to start with education and enforcement of the existing laws for the people (thugs) who break them.

It will take time but the more you educate and enforce laws the harder it will be for those people to get the dogs. You will never be able to completely control what people who are H*** bent on breaking the law can have access too, all you do in banning things is make sure that only they have it, and that goes for all things, dogs, guns, etc......

:angel:

[Guest Anonymous]

Pitbulls are breed to be human friendly, loyal, loving, affectionate, happy go lucky, playful, obedient and trustworthy. Anything negative has been added by bad breeders and bad owners! Long Live The PITBULL!!!

[Guest Anonymous]

Sorry but your wrong, the state of things in Louisianna obviously do not reflect the rest of the dogging world. if your main source of income comes from your dogs it behooves you to take extra good care of them. Winning dogs eat better than most people. they recieve good care because only a healthy dog is a winning dog. im not sure what type of dogmen you have in your area but they are definately not the professionals there i a lot more to these dogs than the money too! THe betterment of the breed by only breeding the best. in all honesty the best doggers breed and keep most of thier pups the money that gets made goes right bck into the breeding program so if you have rich people doing this they are cutting corners to make profit. I dont expect you to be all for dog fighting, nor do i expect you to condone it. its illegal and that is all that matters now. what i am saying is that when the pros had to go underground they rookies took over, and not knowing what they were doing and having noone to talk to about it they had to try whatever worked.

[mydogroxy]

i'm just going to add my two cents here (yes, i know, a little late :o ). i don't own a pit bull simply because she is a pit bull. there are a variety of dogs i would love to own (dachshund, chihuahua, boston terrier, bull terrier, to name a few), but i just happen to have a pit bull. i would think that relatively few responsible pit bull owners get pit bulls simply because of their breed. they get them because they've done research and found them to match their lifestyle. they get them because prior experience proved them to be great dogs. they get them because they're so darn cute! are there hassles to owning roxy? of course. most of them come from having to constantly defend my decision to have her. they do not have locking jaws, or jaws with scissor action, or an extreme aount of pressure in their bite. they can be dangerous, but most times they are not, just like any other breed.

[Peng1zrule]

I didn't read anyone else's replies...here's mine. you have to know the american pit bull terrier to love it. one day, I looked at calliope and knew, immediately, why pitbull people start with one and never have another breed. calliope's intelligence goes beyond simple training--she is CANNY. she is INTELLIGENT. she is DISCERNING. above all, she is LOVING, AND WHOLE HEARTED. I will never, ever, have a "serious" picture of her--no matter what she is doing, she is commited to it. my lab/golden mix is a lady, and dignified and majestic...going into this ditch/forest area, she will pick her way down in. around this way, under this thing. stop here, look there. Calliope watched her disappear under the honeysuckle, and from a standing position, leaped right in. there was no second guessing, there was no 'what if' for calliope, it was a right now decision--she thought about it, she wanted to do it, and she had no fear. she thinks on her feet and is very loving. last night, she wanted me to pet her with both hands...not one hand for her, one hand for my husky. she cuddled into me and growled him away. since I take this as possessiveness, i corrected her. nothing was working until I pushed her away and looked her in the eye. I told her that if she continued to do this, she would go to bed, sans petting. she nibbled my chin (an act of respect/submission to an alpha--grooming is done from omega to alpha, rarely the other way around) and snuggled into my arms...and showed no more aggression...who would not love a dog that knows what you are saying the first time you say it?

[gooeydog]

Once a pit bull starts the attack that great tenacity you guys like so much makes them keep attacking until they are either dragged off by the owner or the person can no longer fight bak.

Have you ever actually seen a dog attack? Not just a snap or a warning bite, an actual attack? Any dog that actually attacks someone is NOT playing, and is NOT going to stop until they're ready to, or they're dead. They're thrown into fight drive, and when like that, the struggling of their opponent will only make them fight HARDER. This is CANINE nature, not "pit bull" nature.

And as far as that video being a reinactment- NO WAY. the way that woman screamed and tried to pry her hand out of the dogs mouth, the look of fear and pain in her eyes. the dog lunging at her chest and face, that dog had no formal training it was trying to eat that girl.

You're talking about the film shown on those "when animals attack" type shows where AC comes to a womans house, she opens the door, carries on a bit, then turns her dog loose on them? That WAS a reinactment, the dog WAS a trained actor, and according to the person who owned the (actor) dog, was completely friendly and trustworthy with ANY person.

Okay but if the video was a reinactment and the point was made with a bite trained dog, why then was the dog not biting the forearm where ther are trained to. why then did the woman not have on a bite sleeve and who in thier right mind would allow a pit bull to bite a fully exposed hand? the dog then was hit in the head rather hard i might add with a thick dowel, it hurt so it let go but when the animal control officer tried to run around the guy that was trying to help her the dog renewed its attack. he then jumped on its hind legs and started biting her in the chest and neck area. the dog was struck agian and then the owner finally cgot it back into the house. while the office limped away to her truck moaning and crying. I have seen protection and shutzhund trained dogs, this wasnt one of them.

There are dozens of ways to make a dog attack look realistic... hidden sleeves and suits, etc. The "dowel" is also a component in protection trained dogs, though it's more often a rubber stick or bamboo. As others have said, you see movies where people are "shot", "beat up", "stabbed", and the like.... do you think they make a trip to the hospital afterwards for their wounds? That's why it's called ACTING....

I am not looking to have a mass euthanization or anything like that BUt i want rules and guidelines for anyone that wants one of these dogs.

Bottom line.... if current laws can't be enforced, then any type of "regulating system" isn't going to be. Look what has happened in areas with BSL so far.... Millions of dollars out to "fix" the problem, thousands of innocent dogs killed, responsible owners penalized, and what have they acheived? NOTHING! There are STILL pit bulls in areas afflicted with BSL... they're just kept hidden away, and owned by irresponsible owners who DON'T CARE what the law says. There are STILL just as many dog attacks, because the irresponsible owners STILL have dogs (pit bulls or not) that they STILL don't care for, STILL abuse, and STILL allow to attack people. Places are starting to consider repealing BSL that is in place because they've seen it DOESN'T work.

The only way to reduce the number of dog attacks is to educate people to the dangers of ALL dogs, irresponsible owners, and the like. How many people who get attacked by dogs have the least bit of understanding as to why dogs do what they do? How many people have seen "signs of trouble" in the neighbor's untrained, unsocialized dog, but chosen to ignore it because it was "none of their business"? Then when something happens, they're the first to run out screaming at the top of their lungs, "I knew that dog was dangerous, I saw this... and this...". How many dog attacks would have never happened if the people around the dog HAD taken notice of signs the dog was giving off, and taken steps to stop things BEFORE they reached that point? It all comes back to educating people.

[Guest Anonymous]

guest napisał(a):

Winning dogs eat better than most people. they recieve good care because only a healthy dog is a winning dog. im not sure what type of dogmen you have in your area but they are definately not the professionals there i a lot more to these dogs than the money too! THe betterment of the breed by only breeding the best. in all honesty the best doggers breed and keep most of thier pups the money that gets made goes right bck into the breeding program so if you have rich people doing this they are cutting corners to make profit. I dont expect you to be all for dog fighting, nor do i expect you to condone it. its illegal and that is all that matters now. what i am saying is that when the pros had to go underground they rookies took over, and not knowing what they were doing and having noone to talk to about it they had to try whatever worked.

How exactly did you come by that knowledge?

If you really take a look at some clearly game breeder/kennels, I doubt you will find many with dogs that are as well taken care of as a house pet. And a healthy dog might be a winning dog, but after the fight what state is the dog left in? It go in the ring healthy as a horse, as they say..it might come out with missing teeth, puncture wounds, mangling limbs and a chewed up body...it might even come out dead. I don't see how breeding winning fighting dogs is going to better the breed either, except they will cull the manbiters (hopefully).

As for the dog mauling video...I think it would be easy as pie to have faked that attack. There was hardly, if any blood in the clip..you see no injuries on the Animal Control lady. She was mostly biten on the arm, which was covered with her coats sleeve..which means there easily could have been a bite sleeve beneath the coat. Once the owner calmed down, she was able to call the dog off very quickly. I think everyone else has already explained the whole situation enough, so I won't go on and on about it. But I would also just like to say that it was an American Staffordshire Terrier in the clip and not an American Pit bull Terrier.

I asked before but you did not reply..why exactly are you asking all these questions and collecting information on this topic? Is it for your own personal informantion? Are you writing a paper for school or something? Just curious? Planning to pass the information along to others?

[imported_Cassie]

The only way to reduce the number of dog attacks is to educate people to the dangers of ALL dogs, irresponsible owners, and the like. How many people who get attacked by dogs have the least bit of understanding as to why dogs do what they do? How many people have seen "signs of trouble" in the neighbor's untrained, unsocialized dog, but chosen to ignore it because it was "none of their business"? Then when something happens, they're the first to run out screaming at the top of their lungs, "I knew that dog was dangerous, I saw this... and this...". How many dog attacks would have never happened if the people around the dog HAD taken notice of signs the dog was giving off, and taken steps to stop things BEFORE they reached that point? It all comes back to educating people

.
Quote by Gooeydog

Very well said.

I just want to add to this post that I agree any dog in the wrong hands can be dangerous....but, how dangerous that dog will be will be dictated by the motor patterns that dog was bred for. I also want to point out that APBT's are not the only breed bred to be non aggressive to humans...ALL reputable breeders insure their dogs are very human friendly, any dog which demonstrates a potential to be aggressive is usually PTS.
most dogs which are aggressive towards humans usually stems from a learned behavior....either from the bitch or how people respond to the dog. I have also seen first hand from a friend of mine who breeds German Shepherds, when her children were living at home her pups grew up to be perfect adult dogs with no fear phobias or aggressive tendancies...once her children left home and the pups were no longer being socialized with a few children running around or teenagers etc...the dogs did not function as well as her previous litters did in their new homes....and this just so happened to be a repeat breeding by the same bitch and sire...just different circumstances in the breeders home when she was socializing her pups made a big impact on how the pups matured mentally.
Most of the dogs which I have seen which have been beaten, neglected, abused etc. have been very submissive and are the first ones to cuddle up to the first person who will show it a little love, I have seen many breeds including Shepherds, Dobes, Lab's, little mixed breeds etc. which have been just so happy to finally have a person hold them...I have also seen the opposite where they have become so fearful they will not allow any one near them..I get to see more animals which have been abused as they will show up at our Vet clinic due to injury's caused by neglect...our clinic does all the medical work for the local SPCA, so these dogs will never see the inside of a public animal shelter....once they come to our clinic they stay until they find a home (by the choice of the Vets on staff)...many dogs which have been abused are usually very submissive.

We have a few clients at the Vet clinic I work at, one couple in particular bought an APBT after hearing how wonderful they are around people and they loved the look of the dog...this couple was very submissive and did not enforce any rules over the dog, this APBT eventually took over the household and became very dominant and snapped at their child and basically had the whole family frightened of the dog....this can happen to ANY breed...this APBT was placed in a home with a middle aged man who had a very dominant but freindly personality...the dog did wonderful with him.
another women bought an APBT and she was a very good owner and mother of one child....her APBT would bark at every thing which passed by the front window, the owner would always go over to the dog say its name and call it away from the window....one day the dog being hyped up by alot of activity going on attacked its owner (redirected aggression) the attack was carried from the living room where finally the owner made it into the bathroom and yelled out her window for some one to call the police...the dog was out side her bathroom still tearing at the door, and her arm was torn to peices...when the police arrived she yelled out her window to kill the dog as it was taking a fit! any way, this women had bought this APBT in the understanding they are not human aggressive at all...the dog proved her wrong, plus, the dog was in the wrong environment, always having some thing to stimulate it and cause it to get worked up...this also could happen with any other breed...but, for people to tell others that the APBT is the only breed bred not to be human aggressive, I really don't beleive that.
I want to add also that I work with many many different breeds of dogs daily. I have been working with dogs directly for about 20 years...I have not been biten, possibly due to my dominant body language around dogs and understanding them...and the dogs body language. I have to say that every one is always raving about how the APBT is bred for dog fighting and how they are not human aggressive due to the fact they had to be handled in the pit...I am quite sure these people handling these dogs were very knowledgeble around them, and possibly used devices to stop a dog fight (breaking stick)...I also don't beleive that these men have never been biten, I would assume they would not have reported a dog bite from an illegal dog fight. I don't beleive they would have culled every single dog which may have bitten them in error or by redirected aggression...I am sure they understood the consequences when holding these fights and know how to handle themselves. I am also pretty sure a small submissive type person or a child etc could not jump into the middle of an organized dog fight and stop it or expect not to be seriously bitten or possibley killed....for one thing it would be pretty stupid to take a child to such an illegal, immoral, disgusting horrible event as a dog fight...

I think more education is needed before any one takes on the challenge of dog ownership. It is some thing which a person should consider committing them selves to for the next 15 years or more ( we have a few dogs which come in which are over 20 years old) I also beleive a person should look at their own lifestyle and where they live before taking on a dog. I also firmly beleive that some breeds can be more dominant than others....I could own a dominant Golden Retreiver or Newfoundland dog and not run into as many problems as if I ended up with a dominant Rottweiler or APBT etc. some dogs are more in tune to your body language and fears...some dogs will pick up on other peoples fears easier than others...for humans its not dominant personality's which need to be extremely cautious....its submissive people which a dominant dog can walk all over which need to take extra careful....
So, for the most part....alot of people absentmindly make a dog aggressive, either territorial aggressive, dominance aggression etc...some people just do not have the right temperment them selves to take on certain breeds, or the time or knowledge.

[Guest Mutts4Me]

guest napisał(a):

Sorry but your wrong, the state of things in Louisianna obviously do not reflect the rest of the dogging world. if your main source of income comes from your dogs it behooves you to take extra good care of them. Winning dogs eat better than most people. they recieve good care because only a healthy dog is a winning dog.

B.S. That's how they defended slavery, too. "Well, if you pay that much for a slave, and your income depends on a slave's work, and a healthy slave works harder, then of course slaves have to be treated right. Great, even, it's in the slave owners' best interests." That was B.S., too. It seems to make sense, seems like it should be true, but it wasn't reality.

Fighting dogs are treated like crap. They're kept en masse chained out in yards, kept a little hungry, tortured a little now and then to make them mad, kept in sight of their competitors to rile them up.

Fighters don't give a damn about their dogs except as money making machines. You know why I think that? Because every time they fight their dog, they are willingly risking its life. They put it in the ring knowing it has a 50/50 chance of being mauled. They keep them til they can't win fights, and then they get rid of them.

im not sure what type of dogmen you have in your area but they are definately not the professionals there i a lot more to these dogs than the money too! THe betterment of the breed by only breeding the best.

OMG! Are you trying to pass dog fighting as some kind of Noble Cause?! They're killing dogs. They're torturing dogs. For the betterment of the breed? B.S there, too. Maybe the betterment of the fighting pit bull, but the goal in these times should be toward the betterment of the pet pit bull, not the fighting pit bull.

This is sick. People need to get over this fighting crap. It's dumb, and it no longer has a valid place in society. Breeders do this with Siamese fighting fish, too. Breeders will fight their baby fish and only sell the ones who prove themselves good fighters. They discourage breeding docile bettas. But why? I'd sure like a strain of betta that could be kept together. But oh no, it goes against the heritage of the fish. So what.

Okay, sorry. No one cares about little fish. The little fish can't hurt anyone, even if they are trained to fight, so it makes no difference. But I'll never get the concept of fighting an animal as being a good thing.

[courtnek]

I have this to say, and then I'm done here....

ANY and ALL dogs CAN be aggressive, depending on breeding, socialization. Depending on treatment, feeding, and training.

Dogs are descended from wolves....most people either dont realize that or dont want to accept it. Wolves are pack creatures who live by a SET series of rules....Alpha rules, everyone else (including Alpha female) obeys.

THERE ARE NO EXCEPTIONS. There is a theory that dogs dont respond to pack rules, that they "dont need them" because they live with people....

It's BECAUSE they live with people that the rules are more important
They are STRONGER than us, FASTER than us, they KNOW they can take us down if they want to.....we have to gain the Alpha control over them FROM THE BEGINNING. If they realize they can win, we lose.

Sound harsh? yes it is. These creatures are ANIMALS!! and while not all will require the strict following of the Alpha rules, the rules are instinctive to them. It's what THEY UNDERSTAND..... so your average Golden or Lab may be spoiled rotten and never be dangerous. Their breed standard
lists them as "people orientated"...most are. NOT ALL. Guest, a child in
my neighborhood was mauled ny a Golden Retriever, and lost half his face in the skirmish. He will now require repetitive plastic surgery to repair his face, and no one can guarantee he will ever look "normal" and everyone says "A GOLDEN? A GOLDEN DID THAT?" YES, A GOLDEN DID THAT!!
A Golden who;s owners never followed the rules of dog training. Let the dog do whatever it wanted, eat first, go thru doors first, lay on the beds (and snarl the owners OFF of them)...but he's harmless right? HE'S A GOLDEN.... ANY and EVERY dogs will use the pack rules to their advantage. If they think they can be "top dog" they're gonna go for it.

Poodles end up in this situation, and chihauhau's, because people consider them harmless. They're too close to the ground to rip your face off.
In a large, powerful dog, it becomes an issue. A chihahua you could kick
away from you if you had to...a Pit? Not likely....DONT YOU SEE?
The dog is only responding to what his human owners have taught him, whether they realize it or not. The Pits you see on the news have not only NOT been properly raised and trained, but a lot of them have been abused, fought, and injured....How would YOU react to being treated like that? If the dog senses you want him to hurt somebody, in most cases he will. If he has been treated like shit his whole life, how is he going to feel about people in general? If he has been mis-bred, mis-treated, un socialized and untrained, he will respond to the only rules he knows.
Those of the pack. And the pack rules are basically "survival of the fittest"
"kill or be killed"

And you think Pits are the only dogs that act like this? I've been alive for 46 years. I watched the German Shepherd get mis-bred, mis-bought and mistreated by the same kind of macho morons who now buy Pits.
I watched the GSD get the slammed reputation (that he still has) of being a "dangerous dog"...same with the Rotties, the Dobies, and now the
Pits.

Popularity has made these dogs "evil" because everyone wants one.
Without bothering to see what the dog wants, or needs, from his owners...
I think there should be a necessary tgraining class for anyone who wants a dog, who cant peove they know the needs of that dog and its requirements, as far as training, raising and upbringing.

Banning the dog wont solve the problem...these bastards will simnply find another dog to fight, to mistreat....

there needs to be STRICT laws in place with HIGH FINES for anyone found treating a dog like this, and for the uneducated, training before they are
allowed TO HAVE THE DOG.

:evil:

[Guest Anonymous]

dog fighting is a terrible thing. there is nothing good aobut it. the dogs suffer the people are reaping benefits form the suffering and pain of those poor things. they aften say that they are just letting them do what comes naturally. NOT SO!! the dogs have the drive ot fight not because they want to fight, its the dominant part of them. the fight is just a way for them to enforce dominance. one dogs steps up the other wont back down so they fight. its not that they want to fight there are too many pit bulls that dont fight for that to be a all encompassing truth of the breed. I know there are some dogs that do want to fight but they are not the majority. and people who let dogs fight should be jailed without question, nota simple fine or the loss of the dogs and the income they need jail time, everytime.
its too esy for them to go out and get more dogs and start over from scratch. like they have a list of sex ofenders, there should be list of dog fighters and they woould be open to random inspections for dog and fightin paraphanelia at any time, without notice.
I like how detriot has an age limit on owning the dogs that way when a fight or something is caught the people are punishable, and not underage.

As far as why i am asking these questions it is mostly just for me, But also as i said, there seems to be some BSL on the horizon and i want to be able to talk to people about it and get intelligent answers to common mistakes and misconceptions.

[Peng1zrule]

A Pit Bull does not lock its jaw as do other dogs, but it lower jaw scissors back and forth to rend flesh from the bone.




ummmmmm.........i think the people that publish this must have never seen a dog's skull, period. and especially never a pitbull's skull...this is ignorant and biologically impossible...IF THIS WERE TRUE, how do you account for the actual condition of the "winner" of dog fights? I have seen fighting dogs that were considered "winners" and they had normal fight looking scars. if the pitbull had the jaw structure to move it's lower jaw back and forth, fighting dogs would be skinned alive, with only shreds of muscle or skin hanging on...not tooth-shaped scars....DUH.

[Rosebud]

:-?

Everybody has some great responses.


Michele I feel the same way but the points that pit-curious are bringing out of us are things that need to be known. My feeling about it is that this could be used for a public-speaking debate, as pit's questions are the negative/media profile and our responses are the positive attribute rebuttal.

Good luck with the debate pit-curious if that is your true intention.

Michele napisał(a):

Gooey and Court's posts.......excellent..........something in my gut is telling me that Guest's questions are for another purpose..I could be wrong, but that is what my gut is telling me.....sorry.....

:angel:

[Guest Anonymous]

Personally I also think dog fighter/dogmen/women should never be allowed to own dogs of any breed, or any pets ever again. There names, pictures, and other personal information should go into a database with other animal abusers. And then that database should go into every pet store, shelter, vet, training, and pet related store/buisness computer. It would not be that hard of a program to set up or maintain. People should have to check people out before selling or adopting them any sort of pet or animal, period.

But something so simple, is truly probably never going to happen. I also think that if they will not bust dogfighting rings right away, instead they sit on them and "watch" them for the right time..or enough proper evidence (which seems to be so much hardly anyone is being busted and jailed, compared to the actual number of fighters). That they should raid the yards and mircochip/tattoo (leg) every single dog (I know some people might try to remove the chip...but they could always place them in different locations. I asked the vet they dont have to be on the back of the neck). The reason for doing this would hopefully attach a possible fighting dog, to a possible dogman/woman. IF the dog was found deceased (as many are), or wounded, homeless and clearly fought...they could at least have some where to work from. Maybe they won't bust the dogman/woman at that time for that dog, but maybe they will at least check the person out more, seize other dogs.

It would be a really great thing if the was strict laws your dog had to be mircochipped. I think too many times police and other law enforcement wait too long before they make a move on dogfighters, I understand why..but there must be some solution or something they can do more while they simply wait for that right moment. Maybe my ideas are not the best ones, but anything seems better then nothing.