Crating!!!

[Aroura]

Just a few questions about crating before I bring Montie home :angel:
Firstly, should I buy the biggest crate possible? He's only a tiny dog, but how big does their crate really have to be? Either way, I think I'm going to have to order one in, or buy one in sydney, because they only had one in the whole of town the other day, and I wouldn't be suprised if that ones gone! It was large by the way, golden retriever size.
Are they generally easy to put up/take down? I'm going to be travelling with him for a few days, so it will need to be easy to assemble.
When I get him home, why do I put him in it? I know that it seems like a crazy question but I've never had to crate a dog before!!! Like, how long will he be able to stay in it for? Dad will be away for the first two weeks and I will have uni 4 days a week, longest day from 9 - 5, plus if i can't find a lift I will have to walk (takes over an hour), should I leave him with mum? On other days when we are out, how long is it fair to leave him in there? Our dogs usually stay outside, but he's so tiney I can't do that, plus the contract... well the contract itself doesn't say that I can't leave him with the other dogs, but the breeder is selling him to me on condition that I don't leave him with the others unsupervised as they may squash him, and I couldn't have that!!!
Is there anything else I should know about the crate? I don't know anyone personally who has ever used one so I'm a little in the dark here.
I just had a thought, if I get the big one, if one of the big dogs needs to be separated from the others for any reason, could I put one of them in it? Or would Montie get upset that some one is invading his home?
Ha, I can't wait to get him!!! :angel:

[Lucky Chaos]

This might be just for unhousebroken puppies, but aren't you supossed to get a crate just big enough for them to stand up and turn around in?

But a bigger one might be ok because he's older right?

Hmmm I guess this post didn't help at all :roll:

[imported_Debbie]

WOW !! What kind of puppy is this tiny puppy ??
A crate should be big enough so that when the dog is full-grown he can comfortably stand and turn around in it .
Until he is full grown you might want to block off part of it, because if they have too much room they will mess in it.
Most crates now adays are pretty easy to assemble and take down.
The reason most people use crates are to house train them and some even like the dog to sleep in there instead of elsewhere in the house.
Personally , I was home all the time so I just used the crate when I was not going to be right there watching them. And I love my dog's to sleep with me in bed !! :wink:
My crates are now used for transportation only.
Never put the puppy in a crate as punishment and don't leave the crate in an isolated part of the house.
You shouldn't leave any dog in a crate for more than 4-5 hours and I don't think a tiny puppy could stay in that long. His bladder wouldn't hold out.....
And until your 100% sure of how the other dogs are going to be around him , I wouldn't chance leaving him alone with them and definitely do not house 2 dogs in one crate.

Good Luck with Montie !! You're so lucky to be getting a puppy !
Ahhh..... the sweet smell of puppy breath !! :angel:

[Bentleythewonderdog]

I think you are suppose to use one big enough for the them to stand and turn around in. This keeps them from going potty in the crate. But when I got Bentley and put him in the small crate he freaked out. I had a medium size crate from the sheltie I had before getting Bentley. I decided to try it out and he did fine in it. I wouldn't leave him outside unsupervised or with the bigger dogs, you just never know. Bentley NEVER goes outside without me, these little ones can be attacked by larger animals, squeeze thru the fence, etc. Anyway as far as the crate goes I veiwed it more like a safe place for Bentley when I was away. He sleeps with me so I didn't need to put him in it at night. He stayed in it while I was at work. They are great for housebreaking and keeping them safe.

[Horsefeathers!]

I'm a little less traditional than most when it comes to crating and smaller breeds, or tiny puppies of any breed, for that matter. I've heard all about how they're only supposed to have enough room to be able to turn around and all that, but I'm a bit more (what's the word I'm looking for here) lenient in regard to small dogs and puppies.

When any of mine were small puppies, I always liked the idea of having a crate big enough to put a potty area in. I've always used a small makeshift litterbox (can be anything from an old casserole dish, to a rubber storage container, to an actual small cat litter pan) and plain litter... never the scoopable stuff because if they ever ingest it, it can be deadly.

I know others believe that this inhibits housetraining, but it never did with any of mine. Even past the crating, I litter box trained a couple of my smaller dogs and never had any problem with them going in inappropriate places. Even when I finally did away with the box, they never pottied where they ought not.

I like the idea of my smaller dogs having access to a designated potty area within the house, as weird as that sounds. If, by chance, I don't get home as quickly as I'd intended (doo doo happens), the dog isn't left pinning his knees and crossing his eyes until the inevitable happens. I never have subscribed to the theory that a puppy needs a crate only big enough to turn around in to discourage pottying there. I would rather have it big enough to put a potty area in. As the dog grows and becomes more reliable, you can put the potty box where ever you'd like, or just get rid of it altogether. I just hate the idea of thinking we have to train them to be able to hold it for so long. Most people INTEND to be able to let puppy out every few hours, but what about if something comes up? I'm more comfortable offering an alternative.

I'm certainly no trainer and I know that lots of books and "professionals" would disagree with this thinking and I also know that small dogs CAN be trained to hold it for long periods of time (mine can if need be), but I would rather see a puppy (or any small breed) in a crate big enough to have a play/bed area (toys, blankets) and a potty area. I think that, otherwise, it's too much like potty training a toddler and then expecting them to be able to hold it all day until they are "allowed" to go.

Besides all that, I like the idea of being able to confine my dogs without actually feeling like I'm imprisoning them. I guess I just like the idea of them having space to move about freely... not just be able to turn over. There has also been the occasional episode of upset tummy where a dog may have diarrhea, or vomit, and at least they have somewhere to do it and not have to lay in it (not often, but again, doo doo happens... anything can get an upset tummy).

That's just my out-of-the-box thinking and what worked for every puppy I've ever raised.

[DogPaddle]

For housetraining it is, generally, but not always, easier to start as small as possible and then increase extra space as the pup prooves himself reliable. I have known others who have success otherwise and my mother has a well trained shitzhu that uses a litter box. It started out crated with litter box but is now left out with litter box available, it also goes outside when on walks. It is possible but my mother found it more effort than strictly outdoor training but the litterbox is a useful alternative especially when the weather is bad.
I have to admit that Kavik was in a huge crate as a puppy, large enough in fact that Zaphod and Kavik can spend 4-5 hours in it quite comfortably. We had 0 problems with crate and house training Kavik this way but the breeder had already started him off with crate training (another thing to lover her for.) Zaphod was crate trained in a crate that was not as large but still left him extra space until he started peeing in the crate, we quickly cut down his space and saw improvement. Of course Zaphod was harder to house train than Kavik overall and in fact we had to use the full crate and schedule routine for him.

As for how long you can leave the pup crated the ideal is 1 hour/month of age up to 8-10 hours, depending on who you talk to, when they are adultish. Zaphod and Kavik are around 11 months and 21 months and I leave them crated preferrable no longer than 5 hours at a time, someone comes to let them out. However, they have, due to unforseen circumstance, been left for 10 hours once and did not mess in the crate and were only a bit more crazed than when I come home and they have been loose in the house. Still, I don't like it.

If you go for a massive crate or an xpen with a litter box inside you could probably leave Monty for longer than 1 hour/month of age, maybe double or 2 1/2 times as long. Either way leave a very safe chew toy available.

One other thought the 1 hour/month of age thing is for standerd dogs, its possible as Monty is smaller he might have a more limited tolerance (smaller blader) ???

[imported_Kat]

Just a note on the crate size: don't buy a massive one. Remember everything will be new and scary to this little dog when you bring him home. Buy him a crate that is adequate for his size that he can stand and turn around comfortably. Dogs crates serve as their little dens and dogs feel more secure if they don't have a massive area to sleep in. It comforts them and makes them feel more satisfied and secure in a smaller area size.

As far as crates go, (we call them cages here :P ), and the ones that I use when I foster pups at home are by a company called Rosewood. These cages are very durable and fold down fantastically flat, so you can carry and transport it or just store it easily.

Good luck! :)

[Aroura]

Thanks every one for all the excellent information!!! :angel:
Well he's not exactly puppy puppy, I still don't know how old he is (breeder doesn't go on the net every day) though he's still young (less than 6 months) so I'm assuming he's already potty trained.
I bought him the big one - I can block half of it off if i have to but figured its better to buy the big one for $90 than to order in a small one for $120 (different shops, last one in town etc). It's pretty big!!! I decided on this mainly because he will be eating his bones in there every day so would prefer him to have an eating area big enough to move, as well as an area to play when he was crated during the day. I also bought him a heap of toys and a bed etc :D
He wont often be in it, he's going to be sleeping in my bed and just running around the house during the day. There's nearly always some one at home so most of the time he can just be curled up on a lap!!!
If he can only be left in it a few hours at a time I'll have to leave him with mum while I'm at uni and dads away, but thats ok, I havn't told mum about him yet but she's going to love him as soon as she sees him!!! She'll be more than happy to have him at hers during the day :wink:
Debbie, Montie is a Papillon, a very cute one at that :wink: The reason the breeder wants him crated when he's with the other dogs unsupervised is because Papillons have very fragile bones and it isn't unheard of for them to get injured while playing with a well meaning bigger dog. I know with Lily for example, she has this style of playing where she trys to squash the other dog with her chest (its actually quite funny to see!), with Donna thats fine, but with a little Papillon it could be quite disasterous.
We've got a little travel cab that we use for the cats, but i think that would be too small for a papillon to be comfortably in for longer than a few minutes (I hate confining animals! Even the rats always had their cage lid open!).
Another thing I'm beggining to wonder about is how I'm going to introduce him to the others. Puddles I've decided can meet him at dog training, Puddles will stay at Claires the night we get back and we can go to dog training the next morning and they can meet in neutral, happy grounds. The rest of the dogs... well I don't know, should I let them in while he is in the crate (provided he isn't scared) so they can investigate him one at a time while he is secure from them? I'm so worried they might think he is a rabbit or something! I'll want to just say "hey look guys, I've brought you a new friend!" but don't want to risk it if it doesn't work out so well!!! I'm all paranoid now, I know they wont hurt him but I just want to wrap him in cotton wool his whole life!!! :lol:
Hope you can come up with some introduction ideas, Tessa should be fine so long as she doesn't think he's food, Donna should be ok but can get excited, Puddles will be ok if they meet on neutral grounds and Lily... well I don't know about Lily, she wont attack him or anything, but I just don't know how she'll react to such a small dog. Maybe I could get her in a down/stay position while someone lets him in and he can investigate her while she's calm? She's very good with her stays and thats usually how I get her used to other dogs, but they have all been bigger dogs :-?

[DogPaddle]

The reason the breeder wants him crated when he's with the other dogs unsupervised is because Papillons have very fragile bones and it isn't unheard of for them to get injured while playing with a well meaning bigger dog. I know with Lily for example, she has this style of playing where she trys to squash the other dog with her chest (its actually quite funny to see!)

:lol:

Tyr did the chestplow thing, his favourite was outside in the winter, he (weighing 2 - 3 times as much as the others) would plow them along the ground in the snow with his chest or head sometimes. It was funny in the winter but not so funny in the warmer weather when I had not got to the dog spots on the patio yet - that dog had very good aim :roll:

I think the crate is great. No sqashy Monty for you! Best of luck, post pics!

[Guest Anonymous]

LOL, funny creatures dogs are aren't they?
Hmm, yep, no squashy Montie for me!!! :lol:

[DogPaddle]

I'm sorry I appear to have been spelling it Monty not Montie, I hope he will forgive me. Montie sounds so dignified I wouldn't want to offend.