xavierandrea Posted September 4, 2003 Posted September 4, 2003 OK. Here goes.. Patti and Free were like best friends until all of a sudden they can't stand one another. Patti is growling every time Free goes near Asim or her. Patti growls when Free is playing with Asim. Free will step up to Patti and a dog fight is on. Neither one will back down. We ( us humans ) need to break the fight up. I do not like this one bit!!!!! Asim is split in the middle. Also it looks as if he helps the girls out when one is down, and tries to break up the fight. Example Free falls he goes after Patti. If Patti falls he goes after Free. The other day he had Patti by her bum and completly dragged her across the room to get away from Free. ( He is only 84lbs and not even a year old. Patti is 120lbs and 4 years old. ) This is going on for over a month! Free is the only altered dog. Could Patti think that Free is planning on " taking " the man? Is Free fed up with Patti? Free was our 1st dog we got her as a puppy and then came Patti we adopted her last year? Is this sibling rivalry? :agrue: I don't know what to do. Yesterday after coming home from work I noticed BLOOD everywhere! On the walls, doors and floors. 1st I thought Asim got in the middle of the fight and now he is hurt. I checked him out and nothing. The I checked Free (76lbs) and nothing. Then Patti the largest dog,,,, she was bleeding everywhere! She was apparently bitten on the right side of her face. Blood was all over her. Her ear was also bitten. Free had traits of blood on her chin. I was so upset! :( I do not tolerate fighting! Should I let them solve their differences? Or should I now keep them seperate until they get along. Please help. My boyfriend is fed up and now thinks we have too many dogs! ( HINT HINT give one up :( ) I say no way! :x These are my babies :) ... PLEASE any type of suggestion would be greatly appreciated. Thank you. Quote
Carolk9s Posted September 4, 2003 Posted September 4, 2003 ACK! First and foremost, you KNOW your bitches are aggressive with each other, therefore you NEVER leave them alone together! NEVER. They MUST be separated, at least if there is no supervision, if they will not obey you then even with you present, they must be kept apart. I'm talking separate rooms with a sturdy door in between, not just baby gates. Why isn't Patti spayed? Spaying her 'may' reduce her aggression and possession issues, it may not but I would certainly have her spayed ASAP. If you CANNOT keep them 100% separated to avoid fights, then perhaps you WILL have to consider rehoming one of the girls. Quote
Carolk9s Posted September 4, 2003 Posted September 4, 2003 Oh, BTW, do NOT let them sort out their differences on their own. You could easily end up with one or both dogs badly hurt, even to the extent of death. I would NEVER recommmend that bitches be allowed to sort it out on their own when there has been actual fighting and bloodshed, perhaps if only posturing with one dog clearly submitting and the other clearly accepting the submission. I would rarely think it was ok for males to sort out their own differences, again mainly if one clearly submitted and the other was accepting of that. Quote
xavierandrea Posted September 4, 2003 Author Posted September 4, 2003 Please remember that Patti and Free were best friends. They shared everything. They were peas in a pod. Until recently. When Free was spayed she had complications so I am little scared but I know that is not an excuse for not spaying. I do intend on spaying Patti once Free is all better. I rather not talk about Free's complications because it makes me very upset and sad :( . I do have them seperate now because of this. I do not want to rehome any one of them. I want to exhaust all methods of working this out. I am planning on calling Free's trainer and see what else I can do. Her trainer is awesome and has 5 bitches and 4 males in her home. Quote
Rosebud Posted September 4, 2003 Posted September 4, 2003 :-? First is it possible that Patty is coming in heat? How recent was Free spayed, I get the impression she was just recently spayed. :angel: Quote
xavierandrea Posted September 4, 2003 Author Posted September 4, 2003 Patti just came out of heat 3 weeks ago and Free was spayed about 5 or 6 months ago. Quote
Rosebud Posted September 4, 2003 Posted September 4, 2003 :wink: You have a case of alpha bitch down. Patty is new and she is living in another bitch's territory. Free is/was Alpha and since she got sick from being spayed is now the weaker of the pack and Patty is taking advantage of Free's weakness and trying to oust her (the alpha bitch), with this being the case and Patty still intact and living with an intact male the territory is obviously the intact male. Asim see's it his duty to control the situations since he is the only male in the pack and intact at that. You need to demote Patty until Free is herself again or go ahead and spay Patty so that they can heal together and become best friends again. I would go ahead and alter Asim as well. :angel: Quote
Guest Anonymous Posted September 4, 2003 Posted September 4, 2003 sorry i can't be any help. i nevr will own two females.. always 1 male 1 female... goodluck though! i hope you get through this!! Quote
abker17 Posted September 4, 2003 Posted September 4, 2003 :( :x :( I just wanted to say that I'm sorry u're going through this! I've had similar problems with my to girls (although they are both spayed) and it is not fun! Dog fights are awful and scary, the best of luck to u, please keep us updated! :( Quote
courtnek Posted September 4, 2003 Posted September 4, 2003 Rosebud and K are dead straight on. As soon as Free was spayed, she lost some of her hiearchy in the pecking order, and Patti is taking advantage of it. Free does not want to give up her spot, which is why she bloodied Patti, and it will only get worse. The resolution is to have ALL of them spayed, Asim included, and that will put the females back on an even level, then the fights will probably stop. Once Patti backs down, Free will be her friend again. Right now, nature and pack rules have taken over. A female that cant breed will NEVER be allowed to be alpha female (or even beta female) in a pack, but Free is unwilling to give up her place. Patti knows that Free cant breed, and so feels she should be top dog. Free feels otherwise. You need to get them all done and be done with it. Good luck !!! Keep them apart until then. Quote
Peng1zrule Posted September 5, 2003 Posted September 5, 2003 Get them ALL fixed. Keep them crated EVERY TIME you are not there to see them. Whether they were friends or not, dogs do not dwell on the past. They may carry ideas and attitudes from the past, but a dog will not look at another dog and go "where did we go wrong? we used to be so close, now look at us" dogs do carry grudges, especially 'game' dogs. keep leashes on them. strong leashes. And install eye hooks in your walls at the studs, or in other sturdy places, spaced far apart. When a fight breaks out, use the attached leashes to loop over the eye hooks and thus break up the fight. (take off the leashes and collars when you are not there, of course) If you are comfortable with the idea, let the male help you break the fight. My dominant female will help me break a fight, and I love her all the more for knowing how to step in and break it up. It may be easiest to keep them seperate. Quote
Rosebud Posted September 5, 2003 Posted September 5, 2003 :o Pengz I completely disagree with you, your suggestions will only encourage the dogs to become MORE aggressive with each other. :angel: Quote
mydogroxy Posted September 6, 2003 Posted September 6, 2003 i just want to add that, altering all of your dogs may help the situation. but you may also find that this fighting may have already done permanent damage to their relationship. they could go back to being the best of friends, but you very well may find yourself with dogs that no longer get along. Quote
xavierandrea Posted September 6, 2003 Author Posted September 6, 2003 :oops: I have to admit I do not like the idea of the hooks. Ever since the fight that caused the bloodshed I have been watching my girls like a hawk. Even at the slightest sign of a fight breaking loose I place them in their crates which are in seperate rooms. I did noticed that Patti is trying to avoid Free these past few days since the incident. When I leave for work I place 1 of the girls on the front porch ( it is an inclosed front porch ) We fixed it up just for them. I call it the dogs room. I'm still waiting for a call from Free's trainer. I will also go ahead a talk to her breeder for more sugestions. I agree with everything that you all suggested. Thank you all so, so, so much. I knew that I came to the right place for help. You guys are just the greatest! I love this place. It is my 2nd home. :D Quote
courtnek Posted September 6, 2003 Posted September 6, 2003 Because of the way the pack rules work, I think you wil find that your issue disappears once they are all spayed. The dominant female can no longer breed, the secondary female knows that (by scent) and tries to take over. To her surprise, the dominant female fights back. Wouldnt happen in the pack, she would accept demotion, but in the hands of people, the rules change....you cnt change the fact that Free wont give up the dominant female role, but you can sort it all out by making them all equal. We sometimes make a mess of things by interfering, but int his case, it needs to b done for the good of all concerned. Quote
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