she's being a brat

[Marble]

okay, here we go again. last weekend i left dresden with my parents for three days, then as soon as i got back i left again with lady and dresden to go camping for five days. she did fine with people in general but her disobedience was really bad. she would never down when i told her to and when i (and my mother once) reinforced it, she'd growl and refuse to do it. at one point she wanted to sit in my lap, so i made her sit first and then when i went to lift her up she snarled and growled at me........now i know camping was a new situation for her, with all the new smells and noises and having twenty plus people around (i had eight siblings there, plus their children and in-laws etc)......

the only thing i can figure that would have made her get this attitude was that she and lady were sleeping in my tent with me on the same level as me, i'd wake up to her growling and have to make her be quiet half the first few nights, and then when it was light out she'd try to stand on me to look out the windows.

now you all know when i'm home she never goes through doorways before me, she never gets a treat without working for it, commands get reinforced, she sleeps in her crate etc etc etc

do you all think this is serious or do you think it was just the new situation and sleeping at the same level as me and all that? could it be that her "instincts" are kicking in at 16 months and she's going to be an hard to control, always have to beon guard for the growling snarling kind of dog? i've already told you she's really obnoxious when she sees other dogs, she barks and growls and raises her hackles and acts like she is going to kill them........

i hate to admit it but it scares me some, not that she growls at me and snarls, i'm not afraid of her as a dog, i'm afraid that she'll get worse and that she'll never be trustworthy at all.

if you all have any suggestions let me know :) thank you so much, sorry this is so long..................

[imported_Cassie]

Perhaps dresden is going through adolescence...I have always found this to be an extremely hard time to go through where the dog will either show fear phobias...for instance one of my newest Newfoundlands which I took in during adolescence (15 months) saw me carry a bag of dog food...he had never seen such a thing..his rump went down his tail stuck between his legs and ran into my kitchen only to be confronted by a corner...there he stood growling in fear and barking!!! I put the bag of food down let him come to me and the bag and sniff..when he realized it was no danger he was fine!
Any way! some times putting our dogs in strange situations around too many people can make them a little fearful...and some times guarding...I have seen dogs in exciting situations "forget" all basic commands. I would certainly understand my dogs acting "different" in new situations...my Rottweiler used to act weird when I had too many people over to the house she would stand in front of me and try to push me into corners with her body...I have since reassured her that lots of people over is OK and have taken it slowely and have not "forced" commands on her when she is in that highly excited mood, nor do I coddle her...if I did she would start to think that there is some thing wrong and she should act the way she does as the behavior is being reinforced by positive attention...she is getting used to being around lots of people and now instead of standing around me and protecting my personal space she now greets every one and falls down in front of them for belly rubs..
The reason Dresdon may have been growling in your tent was she was hearing strange noises and it was a completely different atmosphere, tents can be pretty scary for a dog..I think in a situation such as the camping you just went through....I would have lots of yummy treats available and reward all the good behavior and brave deeds...such as not fearing a strange night noise etc....have one dog sleep on either side of you instead of letting them "choose" where they want to sleep....dogs who have never slept in a tent also may be nervous...some dogs take to tents right away while some dogs may be timid or even frightened.
I have had dogs for over 40 years now and always have had a multie dog house hold...I have never been concerned about my dogs sleeping at eye level as me...all my dogs have sleep in my bed with me as well as my cats! and with a pack of wolves its not true that the pack leader always eats first, goes through door ways first, or routinely rolls other pack members onto their backs to keep them in line...the pack leader may be able to do these things if she wants, but it really is in the pack's best interest - and hers - to be in a state of equilibrium that doesn't involve a constant show of force...there are a number of quick and easy exercises you can insert painlessly into your daily routine to remind your dog that you are in charge of the resources ...just have your dog say please for every thing...for example it is perfectly ok to feed your dog before you eat your own meal - as long as you remind your dog that you control the food bowl...have your dogs see you prepare their meal & have him sit before setting it down, say please to go outside ask your dog to wait then open the door and release him with an okay...some times the dog goes through first, some times you go through first and some times the dog doesnt get to go through at all...at my house I have a fully fenced in compound around my house...I just open my door have all the dogs sit give them each a treat then release them with a "go" and then I have a little peace and quiet while preparing my own breakfast! you can get the idea of this training...this is positive training where you are kindly controlling, not demoting while training.
I would absolutely die if my dogs didn't snuggle with me at night...this is the reason I got dogs is for companionship....I have taken in alot of "problem" dogs in my life many which I have rescued...I have enjoyed each of them throughely and they all respected me...I did not "demote them" I gave them structure of what I wanted and did not want them to do...with proper training they have always been content and I have always enjoyed my dogs.
I'm also wondering if you are attending obedience classes...some times a class setting with lots of distractions can be very helpful for a dog and the socialization can be very benefical..my Rottie does not like any other dogs and is very dog aggressive, but she loves ALL Newfoundland dogs..and I have found a few play mates for her other than my Newf's and we meet for play time twice weekly, you can't expect all dogs to love all dogs...and definately seek the advice of an animal behaviorist who can actually see what your dog is doing...and give you the proper advice for your dog as an individual.
Good Luck! and remember adolecence is a tricky time period for any dog....and adolecence is also when fears are instilled and reinforced.

[courtnek]

Cassier is correct in her statement that camping does weird things to dogs.
They smell fire, they are sleeping in a tent, there are lots of other people and animals (wild and domestic) around. It's a new scenario. The one time I went camping with Jarvis I ended up having to leave him out at night, in the screened in porch portion of the camper, because he wouldnt behave.

But if Dresden continues to act this way once he's home, you are looking at
a dominance issue. If he's ok when home, and only weirds out when camping, it's probably not an issue - but to me he sounds like a dog
with dominance issues. I'm afraid you will have to continue to reinforce your role as alpha, probably until he's up in years. I had to do that with Jarvis, until he was 8 or 9. He wouldnt give, I wouldnt give, and it becomes a struggle. You can do it, I know that, but be prepared to
accept that he may challenge you on a regular basis. You just have to make sure YOU win.

Freebee, with all her issues (doesnt like small children, doesnt like strangers, doesnt like other dogs, she's the most UN-lab Lab I've ever known) is still easier than Jarvis was......You tell her to shut up and she does. Jarvis would argue - make more noise just to see if he could win.

You can handle Dresden!! You'll just have to keep at it, that's all!

:D

[Guest Anonymous]

thank you so much cassie, that is a lot of really helpful information :) your comments about adolescence reminded me of other things she's been wierd about recently. like a week or so ago, my sister came over and was walking up the driveway and dresden (who was out loose for a few minutes with me -we live next to 500 acres out in the boonies) started barking at her like crazy and throwing a fit- bearing in mind she has known my sister for a year- so my sister thought she'd be funny :roll: and wave her arms and act wierd, dresden was so scared she came running full speed up to the house sqealing (which i've never heard her do) and peed on herself and the front porch (which she has also never done). then today, we got home from camping and she did not realize it was me unloading the car and she started barking at me with her hackles raised, so i looked up at her and talked to her and she just kept barking at me until i walked almost right up to her...........it's very strange.....she did improve dramatically in the tent by the last two nights, she actually let me sleep until 6 without barking and growling :) another thing she was doing the whole time which was cute but i wondered if it was a way of being demanding was her trying to climb into my lap every time i was sitting down, and when i told her no she would not listen at all. maybe she was scared and stressed and she felt safer in my lap? she's getting pretty big for that........:)

trying to go to obedience classes has been a big frustration for me, the only one i could find was 45 minutes away twice a week at a time when i was unable to go, the only other ones are at petsmart, which is also 45 minutes away, and i'm not too impressed with the trainers i've talked to there. i'm moving at the end of the month to a more suburban area and am really hoping i can find a class there, i just worry that she'll be so bad with the other dogs that the trainer will kick her out or something........i have been working with her at home and she is very reliable if she knows i have treats or if she is wants to be good that day.........i did tell you she's an acd/dobie mix right?

[Marble]

good grief :) i thought i was logged in, that was me again.

thank you too courtnek, i appreciate all the encouragement. i am usually up to the challenge but i guess all the stress of moving has worn me down and i'm sure dresden is sensing that too........every so often she gets into one of these stages and freaks me out some, throws me off i guess :) i have owned i three labs and am used to them and know their tendencies but dresdens mix is a whole other story....a constant learning experience for me.

[Rosebud]

:-?

Both Cassie & Courtnek are correct. You really need to reinforce your position in the pack while Dresden is going through adolescence, dogs will constantly test their boundaries in this phase. Sally would get a primadonna attitude every time we came home from a show, at the lake she would act like I didn't even exist when it came to doing her recalls. Constantly reinforcing my position has helped her to be a very respectable camper.

I am concerned about the growling and hackling incidents you mentioned. Mainly with the one that involved your sister and Dresden running and peeing on herself. I would suggest that you have her vision checked, if her vision is poor then she would naturally be more defensive in strange or frightening situations.

:angel:

[Malamum]

i just worry that she'll be so bad with the other dogs that the trainer will kick her out or something........

Marble, don't worry about that. That's the whole purpose of going to training - to improve and work on the areas you are having issues with.

Indy is not great with other dogs either and for a while there I was getting so embarrassed that I just didn't want to go to our training class anymore. However I kept at it because I figured he is not going to improve if I never let him be around other dogs. Also, it's not like you will be the only one whose dog has issues with other dogs. The other week at training we had 4 dominant males in our class that couldn't even make eye contact without going nuts :roll: . The instructor just had to be a bit more inventive and think of things that we could do without getting too close to each other

[imported_Cassie]

I agree with every one else, group obedience is great for getting your dog to focus on you. The trainer may suggest a basket muzzle for your dresden around the other dogs...when I first adopted my Rottweiler, or rather she was forced on me! :lol: I was at wits end...she was a bully, dog aggressive (still is dog aggressive) and she was not very nice around people...she was a sad case...tied in a back yard for her first year of life...her owner was away working in another city and she was being fed by people down the road...the dog had no shelter and no way to protect herself from other dogs which roamed in her area...she was a basket case and I almost didn't keep her...I worked with a wonderful animal behaviorist who encouraged me to come to her obedience classes with the other dogs even though my Rottie was snarling and lunging at all the other dogs we just kept the basket muzzle on and the trainer taught me about redirecting her attention with real good treats (luckily she is very food motivated) I also had my sister enroll one of my Newfoundland dogs to use as a sheild from the other dogs when she got really out of control...I beleive at that time she was going through adolescence and fear onset which lead to offensive behavior...luckily she has always loved Newf's so that was not a problem...she still has her moments, and I don't expect she will love every dog she meets...but, I kept up with her descensitizing her to other dogs and I found play mates for her which were breeds other than Newfoundland dogs... :lol:

I am concerned about the growling and hackling incidents you mentioned. Mainly with the one that involved your sister and Dresden running and peeing on herself. I would suggest that you have her vision checked, if her vision is poor then she would naturally be more defensive in strange or frightening situations

This is a concern as Rosebud mentioned....I have noticed also and I beleive I read some where that dogs have a different way of viewing the world...and see things differently..for example while in your car and some one comes up to the window...it looks different and the dog will act in a defensive pattern...even people my Rottie loves cannot stick their hands in my car window to pat her...I'll try to find the article...I think it was in the Whole dog journal...but, as Rosebud suggested please do have dresdon's eye sight checked and mention this to the obedience trainer when you start.
So dresdon has Dobie in her...I had owned a Doberman Pinscher in the past and she was constantly sitting on my lap...she always had to be right on top of me and others all the time...she wasn't a dominant dog...she just seemed to be a cling on dog...she also had a rough start to life ( (I got her through a breed rescue)..she was snappy etc when I first got her but we worked on positive training and she turned out to be a lovely dog.
I along with the other am concerned about dreson snapping and growling...either as courtnek said your dog requires demotion...or perhaps your dog needs to have its confidence built so it will not be fearful of new things....either way a obedience class with a professional will be able to see the problems and help you...I'm glad you are going to be moving to an area which will have proper training classes...and try to find a trainer who beleives in positive training...reward for the good, and redirect the bad....our dogs do not automatically know our rules...so there fore they must be shown our rules gentlely..I have always had fun with my dogs and my training is very fun...and rosebud mentioned recalls...recalls are very important.
Good Luck to you and Dresdon...and remember when training...success builds confidence...remove confusion...a confused dog is a dangerous dog.

[Marble]

you all are awesome, thank you so much for taking the time to help......you have given me a lot to go on and i really appreciate it. what is the best way to find a good trainer once i move? i for sure can't afford a private trainer and therefore would need a group class........i guess to vets offices? i will be taking all of your suggestions and will keep you all updated, i know there is hope for her, i just think like cassies dogs that she is somewhat of a special case and i need to watch all these things i'm not used to heing so careful about since i've always had labs.

do you all think a halti would be a good idea for walking her where we will encounter a lot of other dogs and people? i was just reading the thread about haltis and was wondering if that would be a good place to start before going to a muzzle..........not that i would hesitate to use a muzzle if she was endangering anything......

she is also almost due for her yearly check up so i'll have the vet lady check her eyes then......thanks for the suggestion :)
on another note, she is definitly a lot dobie. my brother brought his three year old red dobie female on our camping trip and not only do they look a LOT alike but they have many of the same mannerisms and funny looks and they even belly growl and bark the exact same way :) it was kind of eery....

[courtnek]

A halti wont prevent her from biting - A gentle leader might, but even then unless you watch them constantly they can slip off.
I bought them for Freebee and Alex, and Alex never accepted his, Freebee doesnt like it, so she went back on a no-pull collar instead.

[imported_Cassie]

I have used a halti on occasions, they are good to use as they control the dogs head...for a nice long hike they are perfect as when dresdon is behaving she will have no pressure...they soon learn that by pulling it is not very comfortable...I have seen alot of people with hyper dogs have great success...if you are going to be around other dogs and your afraid of a potential bite then definately use the advice courtnek suggested.
I live out in the country and I have miles and miles of trails behind my house which no one uses except me...my dogs walk off lead with me...I have found this gets all that excess energy out of them...a tired dog is a good dog! :wink: if Dresdon has alot of Dobie in her (boy, did mine ever like to run) a good idea is to find a fully fenced in ball feild and let your dogs run and play.
I just love Dobie's...my freind breeds them...they do seem to have alot of cute little perks to their personality...most people I talked to back when I had my Dobie would always remark...oh, my Dobie does the exact same thing! for instance I used to have a car which did not have the cage barrier between me and the dogs (which I have now!) my Dobie used to sit right on my seat with me and her check was stuck to my check staring out the front window as I drove...whenever I sat down she would plunk her bottom down on my lap or sit beside me on the coach skin to skin with her head on my shoulder...standing up she would lean against my legs...I have never experienced such a close companion...she was the most loving dog almost my shadow...where I went she went (even visiting people's houses, they expected my Dobie to be with me!) :lol: :lol:

In order to find a good obedience class, ask your Vet and they will give you a good referral.