I'd really appreciate any suggestions, opinions, anything...

[imported_nea]

I love my Birk puppydog. I really do. But I don't know if he is the right dog for me. When we got him I made a whole lot of mistakes. First of all, I wanted a dog then. I didn't want to wait, or look at several dogs before I decided. That was really dumb. I know. And I've learned that now. Another mistake was that we should have gone out for a walk with him, and then gone home and thought hard and analyzed what we liked and didn't like with him. Instead, I said I wanted him there and we set a time to get him. That was stupid too. And also, I think his former owner could have been a little more honest with us and told us he had a slight problem with agression. She implied it a little, but the way she said it it sounded to me like Bir would just go and want to be by himself if people were visiting, and that there were just a very few dogs he didn't like. That is not the way it is. When people come he is right there and barks/growls and is not pleasant. Even to me and my mom he occasionally growls not nicely at if he is wanting to be left alone but we happen to pet him, or if we are taking a walk and want to stop to talk to someone. Then he barks in a bossy way. With other dogs he is terrible most of the time. So he does have a problem with that. Another thing we should have done was have him for a trial period of a few weeks or so. There are so many should haves. And not thinking of them but of the now, I am completely confused. He has his agression problem, and we are taking him to see a trainer really soon. But still, there is something about him that I just... don't feel comfortable with, or don't like, or something. I can't pinpoint exactly what it is. There is just something. The first or second day we had him I became aware of it, but when I mentioned it to my mom she became angry. And no wonder, we'd only had him for a day or so. We talked, and I pushed that feeling back and have ignored it as much as possible these almost 4 weeks now. Yesterday my mom said something about it, and we have talked alot. She's not angry at me now because we have had him for a while and know him now. She thinks it might be something linked to him being slightly... unpredictable in his reaction to being petted, even if it is very rare that he growls, or something to do with his agression. It might be, yeah. And if this trainer can help us stop that then great. But I'm not sure it is something connected to that. There are some dogs that I love nomatter what, no matter how short I've seen/known them and that I feel totally and completely at home with. Then there are dogs that I like, or even love, like Birk, but that I don't feel that same closeness too. Its just something that is that way with me. And when we met Bir, I think I was just too thrilled with the idea of getting a dog that it clogged part of my brain and I just didn't want to see that. I don't know. If I think back now, I do think if I'd been less in a hurry to have a dog right then, I would have probably never gotten him. But then again, I can't be sure. I want the best for all of us, Bir, me and my mom. If, in a couple of weeks, if I still feel like this, my mom has said that we could try to find him a new home that is better suited to him. She says I can make that decision. And I don't want to decide anthing at all untill we see the trainer and talk to her. But I'm so very confused now, I feel so increadably guilty and bad. I have a hard time thinking of much else. And, if, we do find him a new home, I still want a dog. I really do, and I know that we can give a dog a good home. Bir is happy here, I honestly think so. And even though I'm thinking this, I still love him and am paying him just as much attention as always. He is in no way suffering from this. I also wonder, if we keep him and I don't feel he is right, that there is something in his personality I don't feel at ease with, or can't connect with, or whatever, if eventually it won't be good for either of us. I want him to be happy. I myself want to be happy too. I wonder what you think. In these few weeks I've been here I have seen that you really care about, and are very knowlegable about dogs. Please, be honest. If you think I'm a terrible person please say so. I want to know. I don't know what to do.

[Sanvean]

Gosh, I know just how you feel. I do animal rescue and, last fall, harassed my fiance for AGES till he let us foster a gigantic shepherd mix named Toby.

I knew the first night we brought him home that it was going to be a disaster. He was an awesome dog -- his manners were absolutely perfect -- but the cats nearly died of fright when they saw him. He had separation anxiety and would NEVER play by himself or entertain himself. He wouldn't even run around the back yard on his own...it was very cold out, and I walked him often, but it never seemed to be enough exercise.

I cried all the time. Finally, I called his previous foster mom back, and she completely understood. She took him back, and in return I agreed to foster another dog. Toby was adopted shortly afterward by a very nice man who was on permanent disability and he could spend all his time with him.

Don't feel like you're a bad person...you made a mistake, but you're learning. I would suggest calling a trainer first and seeing what can be done.

[imported_nea]

Thanks Sanvean... I'm really glad you don't hate me and that I'm not the only one who has felt this way. Do you ever regrett not having Toby? Do you ever doubt that you didn't do the right thing?

[Sanvean]

Well, that's hard to say, because Toby didn't belong to me, and he wasn't at our house that long.

I don't regret trying to foster him, because we learned a lot about what we were and weren't looking for in a dog. I also don't regret giving him back to his previous foster mom, though; he was much happier there.

[courtnek]

Nea, please understand - this may be a shock to you.

The reaction you feel towards Bir is FEAR....plain and simple. Aggressive dogs bring out fear in people. You love him, yes, but you are also afraid of him. I was afraid of Alex when I first got him - he was not real sociable, he growled at my son and almost bit him once, and fear set in.

I determined I was not going to be afraid of my own dog, and set about training him to stop thinking he was boss. Before I lost him, he ended up
being the perfect dog, but there was that time when I was uneasy having
him around. I rescued him from a bad home, and so his actions were
understandable, just unacceptable.

Bir needs some serious training and demotion in your household. A dog should NEVER growl or threaten his owsners, that is simply dangerous
to allow. Get the trainer to demote him and show you how. His personality will improve right off the bat, guaranteed. I dont want to
suggest that you demote him, because you are afraid of him, and he can sense that. The trained should be able to give you tips on what to do.

Good luck with Bir - in time, he could end up being the model household companion - but it takes time, trust me.

Good luck

[Bubblezzz]

Hi Nea,

I am so sorry that things aren't working out well with Bir. :( But I think Courtnek is right. I can't imagine having to watch out for signs of aggression each time I interacted with a dog. That would so seriously and awfully compromise any relationship!! :( :( Can his previous owner tell you anything more about him? I wish I could suggest things to help, but I don't know what!! :( :( When will you be seeing your trainer?

If you are seeing your trainer soon, hang in there and give Bir a chance, there has to be something that can be worked out so that he gets over this. :( :( :( What does he like doing? Maybe if you up the 'happy' activities it would help you both build your relationship?? I've never had experience dealing with an agressive dog before, (except once in my childhood when a big guard dog chased me :o ) and have no idea how to go about establishing an alpha position while afraid!! :( I'll be meeting a whole bunch of cocker owners this weekend (we take our dogs to the parks weekly), I'll ask and see if any of them can possibly help.

Floppy our American cocker (adopted too) growls at us sometimes when we do stuff she hates like cleaning her ears & clipping her paw fur or nails. Sometimes, she goes a little beyond that and 'mouths' us. But she's never bitten before. (I'm not suggesting that Bir won't bite, because I don't know that!!!) Initially I didn't like it at all, but now we've worked out a compromise. When she starts growling (I think of it as her warning/complaint), I stop what I'm doing (just for a little while) and pet her while making shushing/soothing noises OR I take out the treat bag, give her a small treat and leave the treat bag in view. Then I carry on. Sometimes it takes 2 or 3 such interuptions before I can finish my task, but she now understands that while it HAS to be done, (and I will insist slowly, but surely this way,) it really isn't that bad. I also praise her and treat her after each session, (I am very much influenced by "Bones would rain from the sky" the book I talked to you about by Suzanne Clothier - where she talks about a developing a 'partnership' with our dogs :P)

But because we KNOW that Floppy would never really bite, it's a lot easier for us. It took me a few months to really get to know her and trust her that way. (I was always apprehensive about her growling before that). But Floppy displays NO other aggressive tendancies.

I hope you, your family and your trainer will be able to work this out (I'm sure you can!!) I know how much you wanted Bir and how much you were prepared to give him and love him... :( He's being difficult now, but hang in there!! I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you and Bir. :)

[Mille]

Hi, Nea

so sad to hear you're having trouble with Bir. I also would have a talk with the trainer before making up my mind, it's difficult to tackle those problems when you don't really know the dog and the reason he's behaving bad.

I got both my dogs when they were adults (5 yrs), and even if they weren't aggressive or anything like that, they sometimes behaved in a way that I didn't really like. It was very difficult to work with those problems since I didn't know the dogs and couldn't read the signs of insecurity etc and also couldn't see what triggered it. But after having them for a while it was easier for me to see what were the problems and dealing with them in the correct way.

Hope everything turns out well for you and Bir, wether you decide to go on together or not. Good luck!

Mille

[imported_nea]

Thanks everyone for replying :) . I don't really think I'm scared of Bir and of him biting or hurting me. I have never been scared of any dog and I really don't think Bir wants to hurt either me or my mom. What I might be scared of is that he somehow gets loose and runs away and gets into a fight with a huge dog that will hurt him terribly and then he gets run over by a car or something. He just doesn't listen outside at all! And right now I'm terrified that I'm going to make the wrong decision. So yeah, I'm scared. We do alot of things he thinks is fun, like taking walks when we run and jump over logs and stuff, and I'm teaching him some tricks. I think he thinks thats fun too, and he has already learned paw and jump and he's learning beg. And then I often sit and rub his tummy for a while. So me and Bir are friends. Which is why I don't like it when he growls at me, because he should have no reason. You're right courtnek, I don't know how to be the boss. I know how to be a friend to a dog, and I am Bir's friend, but I just don't know how to put myself in the in charge position. The thing though is that my mom does know how to do that, and Bir knows shes tha alpha, but he still sometimes does growl a little at her too. I hope the trainer can help us. She should call tonight to set up a time to meet her.
Bir also has so many good things about him, he is smart, wants to please, and is such a sweet dog. But there is that something about him I don't know about...

[StarFox]

Nea- While reading your original post I started to cry. This is the exact same problem that I have with Zebra. And I understand completly. I know exactly how you feel....Zebra growls at me too and has lunged at my mom. He growls at my dad and little brother (he's not so little though :) ). I definitly think you should see a trainer with experience with more agressive dogs. And after lots of training things don't seem to get any better then maybe it would be better for the both of you to re-home him. You and your family don't want to have to constanly worry about the "what if's". Like what if he bites you...what if he runs away..and such.

I agree with Courtnek- what you feel is part fear..part confusion and probabaly stress. I understand compleatly because I got Zebra spur of the moment..and I realy wish I would have thought about it more before I got a dog. But just don't give up...try all the possibilities before you decide to re-home him or anything like that. If you just wanna talk or something just PM me, ok? I always have an ear open.... :)

[mouseatthebusstop]

I DO AGREE WITH YOU AND THE OTHERS ABOUT SEEING A TRAINER
A TRAINING COURSE SHOULD HELP :) KEEP US UPDATED

[imported_nea]

StarFox, I'm sorry about Zebra. I hope he gets better.

We are going to find Bir a new home. Somewhere where he can get all the training and love and help he can. Its not just his aggression thats why we're going to find him a new home. I just can't bond with him in the same way I can with alot of other dogs. There is just something in his core personality that I can't connect with. Some dogs are that way for me. Its nothing that I blame him for, or me either. We are just not suited for each other. I think he'll be happier in a home where his people can truly bond with him in that special way. I love Bir, but I don't think it would work out well. This is hard, but I really think and hope its the right thing to do. :cry:

[imported_nea]

He was really nasty to a friend of my moms a few minutes ago... She put her hand out to pet him, and he growled and barked. This person knows alot about dogs, she was doing nothing wrong. My Bir dog. I'm so sad for him. :(

[abker17]

I'm so sorry nea, that U have to go through something like this. But I'm sure you'll find Bur a home that suites him. You are doing the right thing.

[ellieangel]

Nea I may be way off here but have a look at this site,it's about a condition called rage which affects many cockers,I feel so sorry for you it's a horrible situation for you :(
http://www.cockerspanielrage.org.uk/what_is_rage.htm

[Shannon_C]

nea napisał(a):

I love my Birk puppydog. I really do. But I don't know if he is the right dog for me. When we got him I made a whole lot of mistakes. First of all, I wanted a dog then. I didn't want to wait, or look at several dogs before I decided. That was really dumb. I know. And I've learned that now. Another mistake was that we should have gone out for a walk with him, and then gone home and thought hard and analyzed what we liked and didn't like with him. Instead, I said I wanted him there and we set a time to get him. That was stupid too. And also, I think his former owner could have been a little more honest with us and told us he had a slight problem with agression. She implied it a little, but the way she said it it sounded to me like Bir would just go and want to be by himself if people were visiting, and that there were just a very few dogs he didn't like. That is not the way it is. When people come he is right there and barks/growls and is not pleasant. Even to me and my mom he occasionally growls not nicely at if he is wanting to be left alone but we happen to pet him, or if we are taking a walk and want to stop to talk to someone. Then he barks in a bossy way. With other dogs he is terrible most of the time. So he does have a problem with that. Another thing we should have done was have him for a trial period of a few weeks or so. There are so many should haves. And not thinking of them but of the now, I am completely confused. He has his agression problem, and we are taking him to see a trainer really soon. But still, there is something about him that I just... don't feel comfortable with, or don't like, or something. I can't pinpoint exactly what it is. There is just something. The first or second day we had him I became aware of it, but when I mentioned it to my mom she became angry. And no wonder, we'd only had him for a day or so. We talked, and I pushed that feeling back and have ignored it as much as possible these almost 4 weeks now. Yesterday my mom said something about it, and we have talked alot. She's not angry at me now because we have had him for a while and know him now. She thinks it might be something linked to him being slightly... unpredictable in his reaction to being petted, even if it is very rare that he growls, or something to do with his agression. It might be, yeah. And if this trainer can help us stop that then great. But I'm not sure it is something connected to that. There are some dogs that I love nomatter what, no matter how short I've seen/known them and that I feel totally and completely at home with. Then there are dogs that I like, or even love, like Birk, but that I don't feel that same closeness too. Its just something that is that way with me. And when we met Bir, I think I was just too thrilled with the idea of getting a dog that it clogged part of my brain and I just didn't want to see that. I don't know. If I think back now, I do think if I'd been less in a hurry to have a dog right then, I would have probably never gotten him. But then again, I can't be sure. I want the best for all of us, Bir, me and my mom. If, in a couple of weeks, if I still feel like this, my mom has said that we could try to find him a new home that is better suited to him. She says I can make that decision. And I don't want to decide anthing at all untill we see the trainer and talk to her. But I'm so very confused now, I feel so increadably guilty and bad. I have a hard time thinking of much else. And, if, we do find him a new home, I still want a dog. I really do, and I know that we can give a dog a good home. Bir is happy here, I honestly think so. And even though I'm thinking this, I still love him and am paying him just as much attention as always. He is in no way suffering from this. I also wonder, if we keep him and I don't feel he is right, that there is something in his personality I don't feel at ease with, or can't connect with, or whatever, if eventually it won't be good for either of us. I want him to be happy. I myself want to be happy too. I wonder what you think. In these few weeks I've been here I have seen that you really care about, and are very knowlegable about dogs. Please, be honest. If you think I'm a terrible person please say so. I want to know. I don't know what to do.

Hi Nea.

You are not a terrible person...quite the opposite, you are one of those people who get excited when looking for a dog to become your own..its natural and I am sorry you to hear you have gone through this terrible ordeal with a dog you love so much.
When people have a dog and there's a problem they dump there pets on someone else, it doesn't matter to them anymore they see it as we don't have to worry about the damn thing, its someones elses responsibility now, therefore the new owners have to suffer because of the previous owners ignorance and lack of love.
I went to a rescue years ago as I wanted to add another dog to our family but I could not make up my mind whether I wanted a puppy or a older dog, this one rescue allows people to walk the dogs to see how they are and bond. I walked this German Shephard who was friendly but he had no lead training whatsoever, he pulled me up the lane...and was so strong my fiance who was with me took over.
It put me off looking at the others so we left and looked somewhere else. We eventually got a puppy from a Sanctuary!

Its a damn shame the dog is like this and I feel for you, you are the ones suffering as well has the dog really. I just hope he finds a loving home.
I know he will and I just hope those people you had him from never have anymore pets.

[imported_nea]

Thank you abker17 for saying that... I'm so unsure and sad now and it means alot to me that you think I'm doing whats right. Thanks ellieangel for the link. I don't think he has Rage, he has never bitten anyone or even tried to, but he growls and barks in a not nice way. And Shannon_C, thank you for not thinking I'm horrid. I really wish we'd thought of taking a walk with Birk before we decided to get him. I think its so sad that Bir has turned out this way. He came from a good breeder and all, but his former owner didn't know anything about dogs and so he wasn't raised right. Now he, and us too, is paying for it. And it isn't his fault. He can't help the way he was raised. Its just so sad.

[imported_nea]

We're going to find Bir a new home as soon as possible. I'll miss him very much, but I really think this is the right thing to do. My mom says she won't consider getting another dog.
I'm really glad I found this place, its helped me alot. If I ever get another dog I'll be sure to come back. Thanks everyone for your help and support!
Nea

[Guest Anonymous]

i know that you are working on finding a new home for Bir. It may be too late to tell you, but you should still consider training. That is an excellent way to bond with a dog. Remember, we speak different languages than they do. Training is the best way to teach the dogs our language and for us to understand more of their language. With that you will be able to form a that special bond with Bir. I have seen it done many times. Just talk to a trainer. Just make sure they are a professional and being cerified would be a big plus! They should offer a free evaluation so they could discuss what can or cannot be done. If you decide that you would still rather find a new home for Bir, that is completely fine! You do what you're most comfortable with. I just wanted to share this with you. But whatever you end up doing, don't regret it! You have a great heart and are a great dog owner!!

[Rowie-the-Pooh]

nea napisał(a):

We're going to find Bir a new home as soon as possible. I'll miss him very much, but I really think this is the right thing to do. My mom says she won't consider getting another dog.
I'm really glad I found this place, its helped me alot. If I ever get another dog I'll be sure to come back. Thanks everyone for your help and support!
Nea

Oh nea! I'm so sorry! :cry: It's too bad you didn't gain a bond or friendship.... :cry: How old was he when you got him?

You don't need to leave us, loads of people here never had or have dogs but still stay here.... we're friends, and your our friend too! :)

STAY NEA, GOOD NEA! *gives nea a treat* :D

Come on, SMILE! :D I just went through a really hard time, but to every cloud there is a silver lining... :wink:

[Bubblezzz]

Hi nea,

I'm really sorry that Bir isn't working out. :( It probably wasn't easy for you to reach a decision like this. I hope you and your mom find a family who are experienced enough to solve Bir's problem.

I can only imagine how disappointing this must be, especially if your mum won't consider another dog. :( Hang in there.

All the best to you and Bir! And Rowie is right. Please stay and chat - I've pick up lots of tips and learnt so much just by logging onto dogomania. :)

[StarFox]

Oh Nea...I'm so sorry. But I think your doing the right thing for you and Bir.

Please don't go...stay with us. Rowie is right we are all freinds here and we would all miss you if you left. :(

[courtnek]

NEA!!!

Dont leave us....you dont have to own a dog to be here - we have become your friends and friends should keep in touch....

join us whenever you like - we're here for you...

Katy

[imported_nea]

Aw, thanks! :oops: You're all really great friends! :) If I keep reading these boards, the next time I have a dog I should know practicly everything! :D

I found out today some about Bir's past. It turns out that the woman we bought him from (named Helen) really wasn't honest at all. She said that he had spent some time with someone who lives in the country while she was gone for work those few weeks. Well, it turns out that those people had him for almost a whole year! And the woman we bought him from has been in and out of treatment centers or whatever they're called, I don't know for what though. And he was teased badly by kids and is scared of them. No wonder he's not been nice when my friends come over, or to the kids in the appartment building. The person who had him for like a year is named Susan, I think. She is a Basset Hound breeder. And she has agreed to take Birk!!!!! :) I'm so very happy about that. First of all, he knows her and her dogs and gets along well with them. He'll be in the country, which he loves. He will be with a very experienced dog owner. When he was there before he was a joyfull happy little boy. Now he will be again for the rest of his life! Poor puppy has had a hard life. Susan told us that Helen had him over the Christmas holiday and Easter, and when he came to her he was totally stressed out. He even bit her once right after he came from Helen's place because he felt so insecure and all.

So tomorrow they'll come for my Bir-dog-puppy. :cry: I'm going to miss him very, very, very much. But at least he'll be happy, I'm sure of it. And maybe someday we can go visit him! I'll always love Birky and I will always have had for a month in my life the privlege to have him live with me. This is really hard, but I don't regrett knowing him. He is one fantastic, brave little dog.

[abker17]

I'm so glad that U found a home for Bir! I'm sure he'll be very happy! :D Sounds like he'll have a wonderful life with this woman. I know this must be hard for U, but I'm so glad U found a gppd home for him. I wish Bir the best of luck in his new home and send him lots of hugs and kisses! :calus: :calus:

[courtnek]

Nea, as much as it hurts, you did the right thing. Bir will be happy.

And maybe, you'll come across another pup that steals your heart and needs a good home - which I know yu will give....

Hope lies eternal....and most things happen for a reason.

:-?