Pulling on the leash

[imported_nea]

Bir pulls on the leash all the time. It gets very annoying, if I want to go at a slower pace but he is pulling on the leash all the time. I get worried that he'll hurt his neck if he pulls hard enough, and I am supposed to be the one in command. If I jog along he is fine, but I don't want to do that every single walk! And then if he catches a scent, he will suddenly stop without any warning. He knows how to heel for a short while like going across the road, but not much longer than that. I don't want him to have to heel all the time either. I've seen other cockers that walk ahead, like Bir, but whose leash is not a bit taunt. I wish Bir could be like that. How should I do?

[imported_Cassie]

You could try a haltie or Gentle leader...when you have control of the dogs head you can keep them from pulling...or if you can't afford a Gentle leader and you don't want your dog to pull what I used to do was walk in front of the dog and do a full circle...

[Nancy B]

nea napisał(a):

Bir pulls on the leash all the time. It gets very annoying, if I want to go at a slower pace but he is pulling on the leash all the time. I get worried that he'll hurt his neck if he pulls hard enough, and I am supposed to be the one in command. If I jog along he is fine, but I don't want to do that every single walk! And then if he catches a scent, he will suddenly stop without any warning. He knows how to heel for a short while like going across the road, but not much longer than that. I don't want him to have to heel all the time either. I've seen other cockers that walk ahead, like Bir, but whose leash is not a bit taunt. I wish Bir could be like that. How should I do?

Most dogs do not just naturally walk nicely on a loose lead, they have to be taught to. There are many different ways to teach loose lead walking. Is there an obedience class near you that you could enroll in?

[imported_Cassie]

:o by walking in front of the dog, you are cutting him/her off...so they will be hesitant to pull...

[Nancy B]

Haltis, gentle leaders, prong collars and choke collars are all training tools. For some dogs each of those can be a valuable training too but, that's all they should be. A training tool is simply for use during training....not for the rest of the dog's life. The tool should not replace training.

I've got to add the following small disclaimer......

Another consideration with regard to the above training tools is the structure of the dog. Because of the cervical neck instability that can be present in Dobes, Haltis, gentle leaders and choke collars are not a great idea for them. You don't want a Dobe in drive to hit the end of the lead and snap it's head/neck around. You also don't want to "pop" it or allow it to pop itself as can happen with a choke. For training, prongs are safer for Dobes.

[Nancy B]

I do think going to an obedience class would be best for you but, in case there isn't one available I'll outline three methods for teaching a dog to walk on a loose lead. This is not teaching heeling, just teaching a dog to walk nicely next to you.

Both of these methods work but, YOU have to be very consistent.

We'll call the first method "be a tree". When you go out for a walk, the minute your dog starts pulling just stop and be a tree. Don't tug on the leash, don't call your dog, just stand there and hold still. Eventually, your dog will turn back and, consequently, cause the leash to be loose...not pulled tight. When that happens you can start walking again. Of couse, with a dog that pulls a lot, it may take you an hour to get out of your driveway with this method! :D with this method you usually wind up with a dog that will walk on a loose lead but out in front of you.

We'll call the second method "turn around". When you go for a walk, the minute your dog starts pulling just quickly turn completely around in the opposite direction and walk quickly in that direction. Your dog will hurry to catch up and run out in front again....and will probably start pulling again. When it does, just do the same thing...turn around and keep walking. With this method the dog learns that it has to keep an eye on it's person. it shouldn't go forging out in front because the direction could change at any minute. With this method you usually wind up with a dog that walks next to you on a loose lead.

The third method is to lure the dog into the proper position and reward it for staying there. Sounds easy but, you have to do it in little steps. Be very happy if you get 6 feet the first time. Have treats available in in easily accessed place. (I have used cut up hotdogs or cheese...put some in my mouth so that I could get to them fast.) Put loop of lead over lright hand and gather some of the excess lead in taht hand. Place treat in left hand. Let dog sniff treat in right hand. Put right hand out at your left side until the dog is in the positon that you want it to walk in. (Dog's nose will be "glued" to your hand/treat.) When dog has taken a step or two, praise dog and let it have the treat. Get another treat and continue....and continue and continue. What you're doing is luring the dog into the proper position with the treat. then you're rewarding the dog for taking a step or two in taht position. Eventually, and it will take a lot of time, you'll want to get more and more steps from the dog before it gets a treat. When the dog is getting pretty good at this you'll attach a command like "lets go" or "by me". You'll also eventually want to remove your hand, place it against your waist, and tell the dog "lets go". When the dog assumes the position you've taught it without the luring hand, you need to treat it,release it and praise the dickens out of it.

[imported_nea]

Thanks for the help! I'm going to see if I can book some time with a trainer, since the classes started way back this spring. And then in the fall I can go to a normal class with him. In the meantime I'll try one of those methods. What one works the best?

[Malamum]

Everytime he pulls the leash tight just stop. This is a slow process and it may take you half an hour just to get down your driveway but he will soon learn that pulling and a tight leash means he doesn't get to go anywhere at all.

[imported_nea]

Ok, I'll try that!

[Nancy B]

nea napisał(a):

Thanks for the help! I'm going to see if I can book some time with a trainer, since the classes started way back this spring. And then in the fall I can go to a normal class with him. In the meantime I'll try one of those methods. What one works the best?

I have used all of the above methods with success with different dogs. What's important is to figure out which method is best for your particular dog. (That's why a trainer is a good idea!)

My male Dobe is a very high drive boy. He's also a rather "hard" dog....I don't do many corrections at all (usually just related to the dog's safety) but, he'd shrug them off whereas my bitch would really take it to heart. She's a lot softer in temperament than he is.

Mason was determined to be a puller as a pup. I knew that he was gonna wind up in the 80 pound or more range so, I was determined that he wouldn't pull on lead. I usually try the "be a tree method" first on a dog. (It's generally more in line with the way I teach.) You don't get instant results with "be a tree", you have to give it time and be consistent. I did that with Mason and, after about three solid weeks of trying with multiple short training sessions each day, threw the towel in. It did not work for him. Yes, he would slack the lead when I stopped but, he would immediately start pulling as soon as I took a step. (He was a very extreme puller.) I think the reason this didn't work for Mason was simply that his focus was out in front and he was determined to keep it there. He would "wait out" any stops without changing his focus. (Getting Mason to change his focus was also "fighting" the nature of his breed. Dobes are protective...part of what's bred into them IS to be aware and ready to react to their surroundings....to "watch out ahead" for any trouble.)

The "turn around" was what I tried next and it worked very well. I don't remember how many sessions it took before he caught on but, it wasn't too many. The turn around method forced Mason to change his focus. Since he would be heading in the opposite direction at any minute, he couldn't maintain a focus only on things in front of him. He had to include me in his focus....to keep track of whether I was gonna turn around or not. To keep me in his focus, he couldn't go out to the end of the lead and pull.

The "turn around" method is more a correction based method. Although you shouldn't "pop" the dogs collar, by turning around and walking in the other direction your action will naturally pulls on the dogs collar. That's the reason I prefer to try the "be a tree" method first. I prefer to avoid correction based methods whenever possible but, since I got Mason, I will acknowledge that it is sometimes necessary for some dogs.

A positive based training method may not work with every dog but, you'll never cause damage to a dog's temperament/drive/security using it. A more correction based method can cause a "soft or softer type" of dog all kinds of problems. It can cause them to "worry/be insecure/shut down (stop working...stop moving for fear of doing something wrong).

Since I don't know your dog's temperament, I'd recommend that you give the "be a tree" method a try first. If your dog is "softer" in temperament, that method won't cause it any harm. Give it a fair chance....it's gonna take time and it will be very frustrating that you can't seem to take two steps without stopping.

If you do give "be a tree" a fair chance for several weeks, multiple short trainings session per day and it doesn't work then I'd be inclined to try the "turn around" method.

There's a book called (I think) "Clicker Training for Obediece" by Morgan Spector that's wonderful. It's one of the first training books that I bought and I still use it to this day. Perhaps you could order a copy online. It breaks down all obedience training exercises into small portions and tells you how to teach them in a positive manner.

[imported_nea]

I'm trying the be a tree method now, and it seems to be working pretty well. He doesn't pull as much, although we have a long way to go before he walks really well on leash. Thanks for all the help!

[Rosebud]

:wink:

I used the tree method successfully on Sally for walking, however if her brother Rocket was was with us she would look at me like naw not today so I tried the turn-around method and it corrected her little attitude, she decided it was better to walk loose than not get to go in the same direction as Rocket.

:angel:

[imported_nea]

:lol: :lol: :lol: Aww...

[Guest Anonymous]

Thanks Nancy and Malamum too - I found that very interesting.

I seem to have a backwards problem though. :o Lucy isn't so interested in pulling ahead (although she does that too), more in hanging back (you know, checking out the bushes, sniffing the sidewalk, eating dirt from people's gardens :roll: ). I've read about the 'be a tree' method and have tried that, however, Lucy thinks all her christmas's have come at once when I stop to be a tree, since she has all the time she wants to snuffle around, or just have a thorough investigation of the letterbox we're passing. I don't know how to correct this.
We've tried using treat incentives (walking a metre ahead, calling her, and rewarding her when she starts walking again) but that has seemed counter productive - a few sessions after we started doing that Lucy figured out that if she sat down, sooner or later we'd call her and she'd get a treat. So she started sitting down and looking at us expectantly.
I don't want to resort to just pulling her along. Once I got fed up with her, and started tugging, but she just dug her paws in good and proper (trust me, it's like dragging a sack of potatos :)) When she was a pup we could just pick her up and carry her home if she got too exasperating, but now that she's getting bigger it's not feasible anymore.
Do you have advice for this kind of dilemma? I just don't know how to encourage her along without rewarding her for her unco-operative behaviour.

[imported_nea]

Bir likes to snuffle around in everything too, and usually I just let him. But he has also learned "this way", and if I say it he usually starts walking again. If he doesn't, I pull gently on the leash and keep saying it, and eventually he comes. The way he was taught it was when I said it I tugged a little on his leash and started running, and since he loves to run he'd come. Also, when he was going in one direction and me in the other, I'd say this way and he learned that if he didn't come by himself he'd have to come because the leash would be going in my direction. And then when he does come I praise him tons, and reward him with running a little. I'm sure there are alot better ways to train this though.

[Peng1zrule]

if he's shown evidence of having his throat hurt by pulling (and they can do irreversable damage by pulling) get him in a harness asap. Now, when you walk him, stuff your pockets with treats. When he pulls, walk briskly in the opposite direction. He will eventually turn and come toward you, and for a few blessed seconds, the leash will be slack. Quickly stop the backward motion, praise the dog, and start forward again. Continue to praise the dog until the leash is taut. The leash will become taut because the dog will have started in the original direction again. The second it is taut, start backwards again. Praise when the leash is slack, and start forward again. This could take months to fully train him, but after that, he will need only a slight reminder. (in the way of pulling him toward you, then releasing him once he has turned) With the treats, work on "leave it" "come" and of course, "sit" "down" and "look at me"

[Nancy B]

zanzanfergie napisał(a):

Thanks Nancy and Malamum too - I found that very interesting.

I seem to have a backwards problem though. :o Lucy isn't so interested in pulling ahead (although she does that too), more in hanging back (you know, checking out the bushes, sniffing the sidewalk, eating dirt from people's gardens :roll: )........... Do you have advice for this kind of dilemma? I just don't know how to encourage her along without rewarding her for her unco-operative behaviour.

Hmm, I've got to admit that I haven't run into that problem before. My dogs are driven and the dogs I get in for agility classes are usually pretty driven too. Yeah, Mason would like to go ahead and sniff stuff but, once we cured the "going ahead" part, that cured the sniffing.

I'll think about it and talk with a few of the other trainers. In the meantime, go to this website http://www.whitneyandmason.com/obedience.htm and scroll down to the bottom of the page. There are a bunch of clicker training websites there. No, you may not be using the clicker but if you're trying to avoid a lot of pulling one of those websites may have some advise on how to work on your problem in a positive manner. You can still apply the lessons without a clicker.

[Bubblezzz]

We'll call the first method "be a tree". When you go out for a walk, the minute your dog starts pulling just stop and be a tree. Don't tug on the leash, don't call your dog, just stand there and hold still. Eventually, your dog will turn back and, consequently, cause the leash to be loose...not pulled tight. When that happens you can start walking again. Of couse, with a dog that pulls a lot, it may take you an hour to get out of your driveway with this method! with this method you usually wind up with a dog that will walk on a loose lead but out in front of you.

This was how we taught Cosmic to walk nicely. :) I'm also now training him to 'WATCH ME' and pay attention to me from time to time on walks. I call his name and when he turns to watch me instantly, I give him a treat. (I'm trying to replce treats slowly with praise, but it's not been working too well... :roll: ) Cosmic is very food oriented, so treats really work. We also taught 'WAIT' kinda accidentally... :P whenever he walked too fast, I would say WAIT! (and be a tree) after a while, we realised that he understands WAIT to mean 'stand still and wait for mummy'. :P

[ILuvmydog]

There are so many good points here. My dog used to pull on the leash quite a bit . I used "be a tree" and that works well but it certainly can be frustrating if you are trying to get somewhere on time! I also sometimes give her her tennis ball to carry in her mouth and that seems to give her something to focus on and she slows down quite a bit. The pulling is only on the way to the park. She walks super slow like a cow on the way home! That's the Rottie attitude for ya.!

[Elsastarr]

Since this topic is well answered....I offer a suggestions on your training class. No matter, what the trainer says he knows about your breed & even if he/she says Praise Training is the method that is used...GO to the one of the classes now, just to watch. We had a local Pet Store Chain that had a trainer in once a week @ each of the 3 stores. He had all the years of experience & classes, he even had CH dogs he showed, but he was TERRIBLE!!! And, it really hurt me to see the harsh tones he used.
Oh, yes, he was reported!!! By my friend & myself :kciuki:

xxxoxxx