Head Collars work on my pullers:

[Horsefeathers!]

DogPaddle napisał(a):

The GL was possible suggested over the halti as a GL will actually close the dogs mouth but a Halti will not.

Duh, me, I'm such a dumbarse! She DID say that it would allow me to close Penny's mouth (I think). I thought maybe I had just misunderstood her. I have NO familiarity with these contraptions other than having heard about them and seen them in catalogues (never had a training problem before). I'm glad you mentioned that and that I did hear her right.

[Marble]

so you all are saying that the gentle leader closes the mouth and the halti does not? this may be what i need to train dresden out of freaking out and barking and growling at every dog we saw this weekend at the beach, it was nuts......every dog she got to actually meet she was fine with and just wanted to smell them and play and everthing was great. every dog she saw was like an electrical shock- aahhhhhhhh bark bark bark GROWL lunge- and if she did not get to meet them she scared the heck out of the owners because they thought she was some killer freak dog from you know where (especially the ones with the horribly trained small dogs who had no manners whatsoever and the owners were completely oblivious to the fact that their dogs were horrible-which really irritated me as i was obviously making a huge effort to train dresden and keep her in line, but that's another topic). she did fabulously well with all the children we met and i had tons of people tell me how sweet she was and how well i was doing with training her, so that was tremendously encouraging, it's just the other dog thing......if you all have any advice let me know, i maybe should have made this another topic.......

[Guest Anonymous]

Well, my opinion may not be popular, but...

I don't like the headcollars at all. In, fact, a local school of vetrinary medicine has refused to recommend any clients to any training facility that advocates their use. This is due to the numerous serious neck injuries that have been sustained by dogs in head collars.

I tried it on my rott, a disaster. I went to the prong and trained, trained, trained properly and viola! No pulling :D

This is a dog who LOVES to pull! WHEN he's hooked up to his wagon, but NOT when I'm on the other end of the leash :wink:

[DogPaddle]

There are concerns with every type of correction device and you should research them all thouroughly before deciding to use one.
Kavik does not lunge or bolt so I don't worry about his neck. Currently we switch the halti on and off during walks depending on how he is doing. In training we can do most without the halti, for excercises with destraction, I put the halti on (sometimes without even the snout loop on) but leave the lead attatched to his regular collar. As we have been using the halti as a training tool not a crutch, he needs it less and less, now it seems it is mostly a reminder.
Tyr cannot use a GL or Halti as he has nearly no rise (from his snout to the top of his skull ther is very little difference and it is slanted to boot) so neither device wears right, slides up to his eyes and irritates him quite a bit. We are going to look into a harness/loopi/something next training class at the trainers advice. We just started trying a correction chain at home yesterday, works some, he coughs a bit but no more than on a flat buckle and he pulls less than on a flat buckle. I have not used a correction chain before but this is what it seems like to me - you must really watch the dog carefully so you can apply the correction early and then have the chain lossen again, if you apply to late the dog has already slowly pulled the chain tight and it has no real effect. This leads me to think that a correction chain is a people training device - it teaches you when to correct the dog and to watch closely. On the correction chain Tyr's head is right by my near, usually only his snout goes past my knee. Still we will try the harness/loopi thing and see how that works.
Zaphod may need a GL - we have had him around other dogs (last time less than a month ago) and he was a little barky, enthusiastic, wanted to play, yesterday he escaped the yard while I was out in the green space. He laid eyes on another dog (Rott/Lab?) - he's hackles instantly went up and he charged snapping. :oops: :roll: :-? Hello possible dog aggression problem, we'll have to see, and socialize, socialize, socialize.

[DogPaddle]

Cheetah said:

I guess the no pull collar just doesn't work for every dog...

You are absolutely right, no training method works for every dog or every handler, you have to find what works for both of you. If the prong collar works for both of you and you know how to use it correctly then . . . :kciuki:

Courtnek - I'm not sure if I missed it but have you tried the long line method?

Daisymom - :niewiem: Sometimes I think people make up these labels just to be difficult. For instance why on a ship are their ladders and line yet if these things were on land they'd be stairs and rope?

Marble - Be carful with the head collar if Dresden does a lot of lunging (although that may stop on the GL.) Try a GL out - I would suggest (amaturely of course) that if you use the GL to close the dogs mouth you make sure Dresden is not in very close proximity to other dogs when you do so as it may cause feelings of vulnerability. Gently pull up on the lead while facing the dog and say Watch or something to refocus your dog on you and praise the second he quiets and watches you.

[imported_Debbie]

Just wanted to add my 2 cents to this subject !!
I have a 1yr old Rott/Lab mix that weighs 88 lb. so far.....
Our walks have always been horrible, picture, Gretchen pulling me down the street, even with a slip collar on.
I bought a Halti and it was like I was walking another dog !! I have never had such a pleasant walk with her !!! Yeah, she fussed with it a few times, but she never pulled or lunged. I am so happy, and I'm also happy to take her for longer walks now that I'm not having my shoulder pulled out of the socket !! LOL :lol:

Debbie

[courtnek]

Since I wasnt able to get a Halti - I dont really know what they look like. But the GL's have adjustable nose pieces, so if you had to keep the dogs mouth closed you could. Maybe the Halti doesnt? Anyway, my dogs arent lungers, just pullers. They throw all of their weight (180 lbs combined) into
getting everywhere RIGHT NOW! Like they were pulling a sled almost.....

I can see how lunging would present a problem, since the head collars will jerk their heads up if they pull suddenly, so for some dogs they probably wont work. And yes, I did try the 50 ft long line for recall...works great in the yard, while they're on it - they come back evertime! Because they know I can make them come back with it. They have figured out that when "free" I cant catch them....I want to be able to take them to a free-run dog park and trust them to come back when I call them. That's my eventual goal. The closest dog run to my house is not enclosed, so they could decide to wander off anywhere....

[Daisysmom]

I just looked up halti on the net and it looks very similar to the GL. (I was wondering too :-? )

[bk_blue]

I have a Halti for BK- it doesn't close his mouth like the GLs. Everyone who sees it thinks it is a muzzle and they pull their dogs closer to them, or cross the road- BIG VICIOUS DOG APPROACHING... :roll:

[DogPaddle]

Hmmm differences between Halti and GL - the GL looks esentially is like two loops - one for around the neck, one for around the muzzle, they join under the chin where the cinchlike thing is (the thingy what tightens around the muzzle when they pull.) The adjustagle bit under the chin is to adjust to dog size and should not be adjusted so tight that the dog cannot open mouth at all (they need to pant also this negates the tighten/loosen correction feature.) A Halti has more straps, looks more similar to a muzzle, it also has a cinchlike thing under the chin but due to the extra straps and such it cannot close the dogs mouth all the way.

[gooeydog]

Courtnek, have you tried just dropping the long lead and letting them drag it around? That way they'll be "free" (they usually forget about the line after a few minutes of playing), but you can still grab the lead if they ignore you when you call them. Since they're pretty big dogs, and can cover ground quickly, you might want to just get a 100ft rope (as thin/light as it can be and still be strong enough to hold them) and use that.

[Malamum]

Am I the only one who gets sick of saying "It's not a muzzle!!" ?

[DogPaddle]

Actually I don't get that too often, maybe its cause Kavik is a 35lb BC.

[courtnek]

Thanks Gooey, that's a good idea. I never considered letting them drag it to think they were loose. I think I'll try that in the yard. I have some soft nylone rope around here - I'll try it

Thanks again...

Alex escaped this morning. Some kid left the gate open while I was gone yesterday, and this morning they both got out. Freebe came back, but Alex was off like a shot. I called the police and they sent out a lady from animal control who found him, and got him to come back by offereing "ridies" - he always comes running for that. I was out looking for him too in the car, she found him first. That's why I need to get them (and especially him) recall trained ASAP