courtnek Posted February 12, 2003 Posted February 12, 2003 Once again I am watching Westminster.... Give me your thoughts on this. I want to introduce a new breed to the AKC... The "Golden Lab" - half Golden Retriever, half Yellow Lab. I have one (Alex) and the characterisitics are amazing... He has all the gentleness, loyalty, love of children, easy-going all the way around - not a guard dog by any means, but a real family dog where small children might come into play. A real Golden Retriever - WITH SHORT HAIR!! People ask me what kind of dog they should get for their family and kids, one who will tolerate all the abuse that kids can give out, and the Golden comes to mind right away. And the usual response is "Cant deal with the hair". Why not make a "new" breed? The Golden mixed with a Yellow Lab? He has all the characteristics of my first Golden. He's gentle, loving. responsive, puts up with anything...and he has the short hair of tha lab!! What could be better than that? All of the good and gentle traits of a Golden without the constant grooming? Alex is a dog that everyone loves instantly - he has the typical Golden "sad eyes" - everyone wants to pet him. He loves everybody. He DOES have some of the more obvious lab traits. He will only tolerate being picked on for so long, but like my Golden, his response is to go away and stay away until the offending person leaves. He head-butts, a typical Lab trait, when he wants attention. He wants to be always in your face, another typical Lab trait. But he doesnt seem to have the Lab trait of bonding to one person...He likes everybody. They are more protective of their people than Goldens...which could be a good thing since Goldens are useless as protection dogs.. I am now sorry I had him fixed!! He would be perfect stock for a new breed! What are everyones thoughts on this? I think this would be an excellent dog for people who are not real familiar with doggie traits... All the "lovieness" of a Golden in a stern, Lab body... Quote
ShadyLady Posted February 12, 2003 Posted February 12, 2003 I personally think there are enough breeds out there . If one was to cross a lab with a retreiver it well may end up looking like a ret. (hair and all) with the lab temp. There are no guarntees with genetics (as Im slowly learning :o ) An example of this is my lab x ret. she's black built like a lab and sheds massive amounts of hair (dont know if this has anything to do with them being double coated ??) Her temperment is like a lab she didnt grow out of digging and chewing till she was about 6 yrs old Dont get me wrong I adore Angel (thats her name) and now at 12 yrs old she is trained to perfection .It is because of this I like to give people my experiences because they can be strong willed and puppy like for a long time I think thats why you will find there are so many lab x in shelters all over the world . Just my 2 cents worth Quote
courtnek Posted February 12, 2003 Author Posted February 12, 2003 please someone respond - I need opinion here ! thanks! Quote
courtnek Posted February 12, 2003 Author Posted February 12, 2003 thanks Coolie - even disagreement output is good. I know there would be issues with any new breed. But I honestly think that with some tweaking it could be done. All of the recognized breeds took "tweaking" before they became establsihed. as what they are today. This would be the combination of two already established breeds. And joining the best traits of both would be a good thing, in my opinion. This would be a dog that everyone would be happy with! Loving, loyal. dependable, and LESS SHEDDING! Any other takers? I say this because I have one now!! He is a Golden in a Lab body!! All the love, minus the hair!! Quote
gooeydog Posted February 12, 2003 Posted February 12, 2003 I'm with koolie, there's no need to make a "golden lab" when either the golden or lab can do anything a "golden lab" would be able to. There's no guarantees that the dogs would be non-shed, or even low-shed... I've met a lot of labs and a lot of goldens that shed, at least moderately, which is still too much for a lot of people. It takes decades, sometimes more to get a cross to breed true (meaning that all the dogs have similar structure/temperments), and until you do that, it really can't be called a "breed". And all it takes is one bad choice of breeding stock, and you have to start all over. In addition, there are thousands of "golden labs" in the shelters already, which indicates that others don't feel they're as "perfect" as you do. You may not even get the best traits of both, and are you able to handle the culling ("weeding out" of the dogs that don't fit your needs, in a case like this, usually euthanization is used) that you will need to do in order to keep only the best dogs for breeding. One other thing... I've met a lot (at least 30) of lab x goldens, and though the majority were nice dogs, there were also a few with very freakish temperments, not like that of either the lab OR the golden. Quote
bk_blue Posted February 12, 2003 Posted February 12, 2003 I don't know if that is a good idea... sorry to burst your bubble Courtnek but Goo and Koolie have made some very valid points. Besides, there are enough dogs that die every month, week, day, who would make just as good pets as a Golden Lab and who could serve the same function. :cry: Quote
Horsefeathers! Posted February 12, 2003 Posted February 12, 2003 courtnek napisał(a): What could be better than that? All of the good and gentle traits of a Golden without the constant grooming? Are you kidding?! I have NEVER met a Lab that didn't virtually throw its hair at me. Golden hair may be a bit longer, but it certainly isn't less maintenance as far as deshedding goes. So that knocks that whole "less grooming" theory out of the water. Besides, there are puhlenty of retriever breeds out there with similar grooming requirements. PUHLEEZE don't start trying to convince people that Labs (in general) shed less than Goldens. It would be as irresponsible as the Labradoodle crowd selling those dogs as "hypoallergenic." Maybe since the Goldie hair is a bit longer, it is more noticeable when it's on your couch, rugs, clothes, etc., but trust me when I say Labs shed just as much. That whole "less grooming" thing ain't all it's cracked up to be. :-? Besides, what WORKING traits would one hope to enhance by crossing these two breeds? Anyway, you're just kidding, right? Quote
bk_blue Posted February 12, 2003 Posted February 12, 2003 Hmmm yes my aunty got a black Labradoodle puppy (named Lulu) so they can keep her inside and she won't shed all over the place. They got her about 3 weeks ago and I haven't seen her yet... they also have a Beagle (Bonnie) who lives inside NOW because she is 14 and frail, but used to live outside because of her shedding coat :roll: anyway it will be interesting to see how "non-shedding" this new puppy is... :o and also hope to have some pics of her!! :D Quote
gooeydog Posted February 12, 2003 Posted February 12, 2003 Horsefeathers! napisał(a):Are you kidding?! I have NEVER met a Lab that didn't virtually throw its hair at me. :lol: Me either HF. I keep thinking back to when I walked a huge lab x for some people down the street who couldn't handle her , and I would bathe and brush her when she needed it too. I got enough hair out of that dog in one grooming (which I did about every week) for every bird in the neighborhood to build three nests out of dog fur alone :lol: Quote
ShadyLady Posted February 12, 2003 Posted February 12, 2003 I agree I could make a blanket out of Angels hair :lol: :o Quote
Carolk9s Posted February 12, 2003 Posted February 12, 2003 I sure hope Courtnek is kidding. If you want a short haired yellow lab like dog, get a lab. If you want a longer haired yellow dog, get a retriever. Or adopt a dog from the shelter that may indeed be a mix of the two. Sick of designer breeding and mixing of breeds to fill a percieved niche that is already adequately filled. Quote
courtnek Posted February 13, 2003 Author Posted February 13, 2003 ok, ok...you caught me out! I wasnt seriously going to do it - it was really just a thought. My golden lab sheds, of course, but not the way my retriever did. My black lab mix actually sheds more, I dont know why. But I was looking at him and he is such a good dog....but you are all correct. There is no more need for another breed. I guess it was just oversentimentality and 2 glasses of wine....lol I realized after I posted it that it was kinda hypocritical anyway, since I dont own purebred dogs and will always opt for rescues.... oh well. Quote
Poofy Posted February 13, 2003 Posted February 13, 2003 There is a happy medium coat, that is on a breed, that look awfully like a lab/golden cross (when it comes in yellow) A hovart would have a medium coat. As a groomer, I shave down as many labs as I do goldens, to stop the shedding. Quote
Daisysmom Posted February 13, 2003 Posted February 13, 2003 I have a black lab/golden retriever mix and I thought she looked like a flat coat retriever. When I contacted the flat coat society, they told me she was a "Goldador" and that they were intentionally breeding these dogs to be work dogs, i.e., sight dogs, and etc. They are supposed to be very smart. So far, my chocolate lab is much smarter, but may be because she is older. Quote
Guest Anonymous Posted February 13, 2003 Posted February 13, 2003 The sad thing is that there actually are people who try to start new breeds. We have plenty of breeds and plenty of mutts. I think most just dont want to call their dogs mutts. I prefer my purebreeds but there is absolutely nothing wrong with a mutt!! Quote
Daisysmom Posted February 13, 2003 Posted February 13, 2003 Me too. My mutts are very calm and listen better than my purebreed. The baby still needs work, but my Trixie is the best dog in the world! Quote
Black GSD Posted February 13, 2003 Posted February 13, 2003 Poofy napisał(a): As a groomer, I shave down as many labs as I do goldens, to stop the shedding. This is my MAJOR pet peeve! Shaving a dog does NOT keep them from shedding! It just makes the dog shed shorter hairs! And there is NOTHING worse than very short pokey dog hairs in the chest. (I used to be a groomer myself). Same with the moroms that want to shave a coated breed so it will be cooler in the summer :x The coat HELPS keep the dog cool. (I am talking about your basic GSD, Golden, Rough Collie ect...) :evil: Poofy, this rant is NOT directed at you. I know that as a groomer you have to do that the customer wants, afterall, they are the ones that pay! :D Quote
Marble Posted February 13, 2003 Posted February 13, 2003 just my three cents :) i have had, let's see, three labs and every single one of them shed like crazy, it was unbelievable. not to be mean or anything but i think that most people who breed should not be and the few that do it right should be the only ones allowed to breed. there are a heck of a lot of dogs, mutts and purebreds, puppies and adults out there who need homes and make incredible pets, i am fortunate to have adopted two georeous interesting mutts.........not to get on a rant. i'll get off my soapbox now Quote
courtnek Posted February 13, 2003 Author Posted February 13, 2003 I already threw in the towel, people....LOL :oops: as far as shaving goes, I used to get my Malamute/border mix "thinned" every summer because of the heat....He got so thick in the winter that even after blowing his coat, he didnt want to go out. He would lay on the couch under the air conditioner! I would take him in and have the undercoat pulled out. He looked 10 lbs thinner and was much more comfortable that way. I never shaved him though. Quote
Guest Anonymous Posted February 14, 2003 Posted February 14, 2003 Although I see the interest in creating a new breed, one must realize that it takes generations (and sometimes 100's of years) to get a finsihed product of the breeds you see now. Although all breeds had to start somewhere, genetics cannot be bridled for long without incident. You cannot guarantee what you will produce with each mating, even when mating the same two dogs repeatedly. The new litter can carry traits that haven't been seen for 3-4 generations, and all of a sudden, there it is. You might get all the lovable traits you desire in one or two pups, but you may also have one or two pups with traits you were not breeding for. Breeding takes serious dedication and thorough knoweldge of your breed. Otherwise you would be labelled as a backyard breeder. And what would a person do with the puppies whom they couldn't find homes for? It's a very serious responsibility and not one to be taken lightly. Quote
courtnek Posted February 14, 2003 Author Posted February 14, 2003 :D I will repeat - I threw in the towel - it was a bad example of sentimentality (my golden lab is sooo good) and two glasses of wine. I realize that another breed is not necessry. It's just that I want everyone to have a dog like Alex. Loving, Loyal, and sheds less than a golden.. (I can say that having had borh) but I am NOT going to try to get a new breed implementated. I think that Alex as a rescue dog is perfect. He's quiet, loyal gentle all-enduring... I cant believe his owner ever gave him up!! And he has those all-endearing eyes that make you just want to pay attention to him - I think thats a learned trait... . :D Quote
Marble Posted February 14, 2003 Posted February 14, 2003 okay, we'll all get off your case now :D :D i know how you feel though, there's just something about them mutt's..... Quote
courtnek Posted February 15, 2003 Author Posted February 15, 2003 Actually, I appreciate the feedback - I am not the "sensitive" type, and if I put something up for discussion I want truthful answers. I got a lot of them! Thanks to everyone! I got a little over "lovey" about my dog, but I realize that it would not be a good idea in the long run. Dont worry about insulting me! I am "politically incorrect" and intend to STAY that way!! LOL :D :D :D Quote
Kaleb124 Posted February 18, 2003 Posted February 18, 2003 Since we are creating new breeds, I want to be the person known for creating the "axen" (pronounced oxen).... It would be a cross between an akita and a dachsund. :lol: Just kidding of course. Quote
Guest Anonymous Posted March 27, 2003 Posted March 27, 2003 The reason that most service dog charities as moving toward using Golden/Lab crosses (like the one I'm raising as a Guide Dog) is because they are healthier than pure breeds and they require less coat maintenance than Golden while maintaining the characteristics of both breeds. It is truly the best of both worlds. Quote
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