Humane Education

January 28, 2003

lLaduenda you powers of deduction and perception are mind boggling. :shake:

What bothers me is that you really beleive the randoms sputtering that come out of your mouth. You dont think that dog fighting is cruel or bull-baiting or bear baiting, or any other I L L E G A L activities these dogs were used for in the past. Seriously I was trying to see things your way for the first few posts then you made an effort to understand our perspective but now youve got 180 degrees and are hell-bent on destruction. I can understnad that you feel like everyone is against you hence the aggressive attitude but i hope some of this is just anger talking and not your true mind-set.

You are just mad right? Tell me that your joking.

January 28, 2003

Yes Rottnpitt I am mad because I am beig jumped on and being accused of keeping my animals in unsanitary conditions which I do not do. I have said some things in anger and I do see some cruelty in those"Animal sports" that I mentioned I myself would never do any of those things even if they were legal with the exception of hog hunting.

January 28, 2003

Laduenda, Here is your ad for pups for sale. Thought you had a rescue dog with a litter??????????????????????????????

American pit bull terrier pups due beginning of January03'.A.D.B.A. Reg'd. Will be 40-65lbs.Out of ch.gambler,Reddevil lines. Health garunteed. Teking deposites now.Red, Redbrindle,and Redbrindle and white rednose expected.Will ship. All shots and dewormed. Excellent hog catching prospects. Stud service also available. pups$500.oo Stud fee varies.

How about the young female that was stolen from your yard in November? You accused someone by the name of Rodriquez of stealing her?
Your dogs are kept very secure, RIGHT??????

January 28, 2003

:boom:

Well basically you have just proved to me what an idiotic cretin you are.
Before comenting on any breed. read the history.

You really are the most obnoxious, uneducated dog person i have ever come across, you do not even know the standard of the breed which you
have decided to get into and yet, feel in you wisdom :oops: you have the knowledge to comment on other breeds.

I am being very polite here :lol:
go forth and multiply

January 28, 2003

Roo,
I agree. It is so obvious that Laduenda has no clue about the Bulldog breed. I think she is trying to divert attention from the original topic.
She wants us to tell her we agree with her iresponsible breeding practices. That won't happen.
Our Bulldogs aren't game dogs. Our Bulldogs don't attack other animals or people. I am glad she despises our Bulldogs. At least I don't have to worry about her ever owning one. lol WD

January 28, 2003

Hello! I already told you that I did breed a bitch around the same time bu that she is in the care of her co-owner I am finding homes for them not him so I am advertising them. They are not located here on my property . The rescue bitch is a totally different bitch and they were whelped 3 days apart she is not even the same color LOL. Also there are other rescue groups here and they also have 3 litters of puppies that were whelped around the same time none of them are mine and none of them are related you are the idiot for assuming things. Have you never heard of two females coming in heat or whelping around the same time? Look around and browse the web I am sure you will see lots of ads for puppies that were whelped around the same time that does not mean they were whelped by the same dog does it.Actually the female that was stolen from me was sold to him on a co-ownership I did a home check I asked for refrences,I even got it in writing and he took off and disappeared none of his refrences know where he is at and I am still looking for him I go by the house where he was living once a week his sisters still live their they say they don't know where he is I will find her. His name is Anthony Rodriguez and yes I looked at his drivers license. The police say if I find her they will retrieve her for me but I am sure he has left town. Don't get nosy into things you know nothing about.

DogPaddle · January 28, 2003

Frankly, I agree with you. The problem of irresponsible dog ownership would still remain even if breeders changed the essential make-up of the dog. I understand why people would want to breed for a less aggressive animal, but if aggression is a part of the standard (like in the Fila) then I don't think it should be tampered with. It's an unpopular opinion, but it's mine.

Mei-mei
I do agree with you to an extent. IF we could ensure that EVERY or at least most owners of apbts were good owners, trained them, ensured that they were under control and otherwise knew how to be a proper handler for their dog - then some degree of dog aggression would be of little importance. But given the number of apbts in my local shelter and the number of people hanging out downtown with these dogs wearing spikes and chains, lunging at every passerby - I don't think we are capable of ensuring apbts are in homes with good apbts handlers/owners.
People will continue to obtain these dogs and similar breeds for their image, for their aggression and for many other bad reasons. They will handle them improperly and they will enhance their existing aggression and some old ladys poodle will get eaten and the dog will be euthanized. The breeds reputation will never be improved. Therefore the option we need to look at to save the breed is the breeders who should be the caretakers and gaurdians of their breed. It is possible to breed down the aggression without changing much else. Without the aggression some of the bad owners would be dissuaded from ever getting the dog in the first place, maybe they'd where the spikes and chains themselves and get a gun or something but never own a dog - :lol: . As I said I don't think it is a disservice to the breed - after all if as a responsible handler you are going to completely control your dogs potential for aggression why do you care if its even aggresive or not, either way its not going to act out in an aggresive manner. It would be nice if everyone who adopted any breed understood that dogs special handling needs and provided the very best family home for that dog but as this thread proves - its not going to happen :( .
Opinions vary, maybe some combination of ideas and alot of public education and the example of good owners and breeders will save the breed from death by bad handlers, breeders, and bsl.

January 28, 2003

"I thouroughly screen all my puppy buyers and do Home checks if possible.If is not an option in my opinionI will take back any pup or dog I sell at any time for any reason. I am involved in Conformation and weight pull and soon Schutzhund. I garuntee against all Genetic problems for2 1/2 years and aginst contagouse disease for 3 days.All my dogs are registered ,vaccinated,dewormed,fed high quality food prior to purchase .I also provide info. on the temperment and history of the breed. I will refuse to sell a puppy to an unfit home. I am starting a local breed rescue and club to help educate potential owners that this breed is not for everyone and to let them know how to be responsible owners. "
Exactly what do you consider a RESPONSIBLE owner?

"Some bitches that are in their prime(2-3 years) could be bred Back to Back but after that you should give her one full year of rest."
Nice one...Giving advice when you should know better as a "breeder"..

Pinch collars working for you???

January 28, 2003

I like being nosy. You accused a man of stealing a dog he co-owns. Do you know what Co-own means? It means he owns half of that dog. Now tell me why Police would get the dog back for you? In your lost ad you stated he stole the dog out of YOUR YARD! I will post that ad next and prove you are lying.
Your ad on the pups states blood lines. No ads for the rescue pups?????Who in their right mind would give away their dog and pups to you? Another lie. The ad you had on one "so called rescue" states $200.00 plus shipping. Hmmm Shipping a rescue to anyone that has the money. I looked back on the posts you have made on this board and there are so many discrepancies I couldn't count them all. I am not an idiot. You are being exposed for the type of person you really are.
7 Pitbulls and 2 Mals on log chains in a back yard. Not impressive. How many of those dogs have tags? Rabies vac's? How dare you say that the Animal control Officer at the shelter was smoking grass and you caught him but didn't turn him in? Are you stating you are blackmailing him?
I do not believe you. You are slandering that person on a public forum. We all know what you are. The gig is up.

DogPaddle · January 28, 2003

laduenda - If you don't want people to comment on the things you do or say (what you seem to refer to as being nosy) don't post them here. This is a forum and they way forums work is this - someone posts something, someone else responds. If you don't like it don't post.

January 28, 2003

Laduenda's ad;
I had one Female stolen about 4 months ago in Arizona She was Red/White Rednose white only on chest and feet and a small line on her face. She is about 65lbs has her ears cropped and answers to "weda". She is fully trained and agressive so be carefull. Shge is not spayed and may have had a litter during this time she was Stolen by Anthony Rodriguez. if anyone has any info on her please e-mail me.

Fully Trained and Aggressive. hmmm

January 28, 2003

Sorry but i have got to say it WATCHDOG that is the cutest puppy I have ever seen. It is almost staggering. Sorry i had to get that out.

Laduenda your story is not really panning out to be as innocent and honest as you at first tried to be. Whats up, why are you trying to pull the fur over our eyes?

:-?

January 28, 2003

You guys read whatever you want and then you make up stories and lies so that they sound like you want them to. Just leave me alone if you want me to stop posting then I will but you have to quit attacking me.

DogPaddle · January 29, 2003

Mei - I think we agree that massive education of breeders, owners, legislators and the public is a good way to start.

Laduenda - I did not say - do not post, I said IF you do not want people to reply to the things you say in your post then do not post in the first place.

January 29, 2003

This is copied and pasted from the UKC PitBull Standard. There is nothing wrong with the standard. If you notice, Aggression is mentioned but by no means does it say it is required or should be the focus for function of the animal.

CHARACTERISTICS

The essential characteristics of the American Pit Bull Terrier are strength, confidence, and zest for life. This breed is eager to please and brimming over with enthusiasm. APBTs make excellent family companions and have always been noted for their love of children. Because most APBTs exhibit some level of dog aggression and because of its powerful physique, the APBT requires an owner who will carefully socialize and obedience train the dog. The breed's natural agility makes it one of the most capable canine climbers so good fencing is a must for this breed. The APBT is not the best choice for a guard dog since they are extremely friendly, even with strangers. Aggressive behavior toward humans is uncharacteristic of the breed and highly undesirable. This breed does very well in performance events because of its high level of intelligence and its willingness to work.
The American Pit Bull Terrier has always been capable of doing a wide variety of jobs so exaggerations or faults should be penalized in proportion to how much they interfere with the dog's versatility.

January 29, 2003

Just a thought maybe she breeds to the A.D.B.A Standard not the U.K.C. :)

January 29, 2003

It doesnt matter to what standard she breeds, you are missing the point she is not very consistent with the things she says here. and in a forum your word is the only thing you have we dont know each other personally so what you type is who you are. She is not shaping out to be the person I thought she was. We give everyone the benefit of the doubt here but when lies come to light and stories change(a few times) it makes it kind of difficult to empathize and encourage a person. Thats what we do here we bring in our rants, problems, brags and you get to tel lother DOG-PEOPLE that will care instead of telling someone who is going to look at you all crazy. Half of the things i get to talk about here I cant really relate to anyone else they think i have some kind of dog fetish or something :roll:

Whatever, just know that if you lie to us we are going to find out and it will definately compramise anything you might say in the future. So just be real and use the only thing you have here... THE TRUTH.
:black:

January 29, 2003

The ADBA standard also states similar remarks about aggression. Socialize and train seem to be key words. Laduenda didn't do those things. The APBR doesn't have a standard listed. In fact they register dogs that have been rescued or found stray. That was enlightening. lol

January 29, 2003

Thank you for the welcoming everyone.

Laduenda, I'm not going to judge you, I dont even know you. I'll be honest and tell you that you that by what you've typed you scare the hell out of me. ON THE BRIGHT side though, I do believe you love and care for your animals. Sounds like you keep them healthy and are knowledgable. As for your comments on the Bulldogs, they're opinions so I'll just leave them alone. You said you live in the woods, so I'm gathering far north in arizona? near Flagstaff maybe? I live down in Tucson, Just saying 'HI' neighbor.

Watchdog, Your friends sound like my wife and I. We have 4 dogs in the house though. We also have three XL Pet Porter kennels, the large (plastic?) ones. Usually only two of them get kenneled when we leave the house. Those are the youngest puppies, we're still working on a few of their chewing habbits. They REALLY like my wife's shoes and clothes.

Wildbunch, Wonderfull family you've got there on your site! We own two horses aswell. One is a quaterhorse( 2 year old?) and the other is a Thoroughbred( 23-25). Both of us take care of our family, but the horses we got for her. She ride English (Dressage to be exact). Our older mare is just getting ready for retirement, time to let her enjoy life relaxing. The younger gelding is in mild training. Just recently broken, he's a very calm, intelligent fella.

Sashagirl, Your a good role model, proud to have met you. :D

BTW everyone, I'm currently using chokechains. Are they really that bad? They don't pull on them anymore. I didn't physically correct them via using the chains when training them to walk on a leash. When ever they pulled I stopped walking, and when they behaved and walked on my left I rewarded them. I use them 'Just in case' we have a incident somewhere. When I'm outside on our land Twinkie stays by my side off-leash and listens to me. The pups however have a mind of their own (obviously!) for a few minutes before they pay attention to me. They run around our land like maniacs. Anyways, just wondering everyones opinions on leash-collars. We have normal clip nylons on all of our dogs, but when we go for our walks we use chokers. They don't pull on them, so they never choke themselves. I honestly don't see any danger at the moment. I do check them often to make shure they release.

January 29, 2003

K, wonderfull pictures of your family!! wow.. :D

Just was wondering, just recently read a comment that made me worry. Thats all. I don't like taking chances when it comes to my girls, After all they are my kids :P

January 29, 2003

I found this on a site and it made some good points, just thought i would share:

Gameness in APBT's is a canine virtue that is most akin to the human
virtue of unflagging courage. It is a determination to master any
situation and never back down out of fear. It was developed in
pit bulls by many generations of selective breeding. It is what
allows a pit bull to keep fighting non-stop for two or more hours,
in spite of broken bones, torn muscles, blood loss, dehydration,
and exhaustion. But it is also valued by APBT owners who would never
think of fighting their dogs. It is manifested in the can-do attitude
of pit bulls toward any type of challenge, whether agility competitions,
climbing up trees, or protecting their family against an armed attacker,
etc. (Yes, check out Richard Stratton's books for photos of pit bulls
actually climbing up the trunk of a big tree in order to nestle in the
branches 15 feet off the ground.)

Generally speaking, a game dog is an emotionally stable, easy-going dog,
especially good with kids. Gameness should not be confused with
aggressiveness. There are plenty of aggressive dogs that are not game,
and there are game pit bulls who are not aggressive toward other types
of dogs. Aggressiveness will propell a dog into a fight but will only
sustain him for the first few minutes. Gameness, on the other hand,
will not necessarily make a dog fight-happy; but if the dog has no
other choice but to fight, a game dog will fight until it wins or dies
trying, and will keep going as long as necessary. Gameness is an inner
quality of pit bulls. There is no way you can tell by looking at a
pit bull whether it is deeply game or not. The only test--and for many
years the main criterion for selecting a dog for breeding purposes--is
actually fighting the dog to see how it stands up to other dogs that
have likewise already proven their gameness in the pit. Dogs that are
emotionally unstable, or that fear-bite human beings are generally not
game. If you want a nice pit, you're generally better off getting one
that has been game-bred. These dogs represent the truest exemplars
of all the best qualities in the breed.

Some good points to ponder....

January 29, 2003

Pit bulls will generally excel in activities that require sustained
determination and that test their bodies' ability to endure pain and
exhaustion to an extreme. But the fact is that there are very few
activities that will test a dog's gameness to its limits, or that will
provide a basis for comparing one dog's degree of gameness to
another's. For example, wild boar hunting, in spite of the high level
of risk to the dog involved, doesn't really test the limits of a dog's
gameness. The tangle between boar and dog is fast, furious, and
generally quite short (compared with a pit contest). Athletic ability,
agility, explosive power, strength of bite, and smarts are of a higher
priority here than gameness, which never really has a chance to come
into play in so brief an encounter. The dog will either take the boar
down or be killed before the depth of his gameness can make much of a
difference. Several larger breeds of dogs--American Bulldogs and
Argentine Dogos--seem to be at least equally adept at boar hunting as
pit bulls. But this doesn't make them as game as pit bulls.

This person had lots of issues with the gameness of the breed.

January 29, 2003

Rott'N'Pitt,
Very interesting. Regardless of the negative issues that have surfaced in the LaDuenda thread, some positives have also been realized. We are all more informed on the American Pitbull Terrier. Thanks!

January 29, 2003

WEll thanks :oops: Im all blushy over here.
:black:

February 7, 2003

You guys are full of it.Not all chained dogs suffer from sporadic feedings,overturned water bowls,inadequate veterinary care,or lack of shelter. Quit making things up. Can't you debate the chaining issue without lumping all people who chain together with neglectfull owners?

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