Luka-pop Posted January 21, 2003 Posted January 21, 2003 Most of you polly already know about these things, but they really p***ed me off, so I thought I'd share... :cry: :evil: There's a lot of them, and some of them are better than others. Premarin was a new one for me. Chaining/Tethering Dogs http://www.hsus.org/ace/11865 Bonsai Kitten (repeat, but still) http://www.hsus.org/ace/14130 What to do about animal cruelty sites http://www.hsus.org/ace/11813 Horse Auctions http://www.hsus.org/ace/11786 Horse Slaughter http://www.hsus.org/ace/11787 Premarin Drug http://www.hsus.org/ace/11788 Puppy Mills http://www.hsus.org/ace/11797 Greyhound Racing http://www.hsus.org/ace/11798 Free-Roaming Cats http://www.hsus.org/ace/11857 Cloning Pets http://www.hsus.org/ace/13318 Pet Overpopulation & Ownership Statistics http://www.hsus.org/ace/11829 Wild Animals as Pets http://www.hsus.org/ace/11880 Humane Society of the United States http://www.hsus.org Quote
yellowlabsrule Posted January 21, 2003 Posted January 21, 2003 I have heard about premarin and what they do to the foals and mares! :x Quote
Cheetah Posted January 21, 2003 Posted January 21, 2003 Just to let you know (and everyone else who doesn't), bonsai kittens are a prank! Go here to see the proof http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/outrage/bonsai.htm Other than that, those are all really horrible topics that piss me off too! I wish there was more I could do to help stop it... Quote
wildbunch Posted January 22, 2003 Posted January 22, 2003 It is interesting that most people do not know what is in the drugs they take. I am tied for passion between horses and dogs and the premarin makes me quite mad. I have looked into it quite extensively and the treatment is appauling (sp?). Hopefully through education and spreading the word we can get more people to look into what they take. I do know quite a few people who have rescued premarin foals. In the next year or two I hope to have the land to be able to rescue a few myself. Don't get me started on slaughterhouses! :x I'm going to stop now. Quote
bullygirl29532 Posted January 22, 2003 Posted January 22, 2003 I really have no opinion about chaining for or about people who do. But i can speak for my own actions. I could never subject any creature to a condition i would not subject myself also. unless it's a human, i'm human aggressive. So i can't imagine not having my dog (dogs) with me at all times except work hours. but free will is just that. I can only hope more people will come to realize and adopt my point of views. Quote
Hobbit Posted January 22, 2003 Posted January 22, 2003 [quote name='laduenda'] American Pit BUll terriers can be chained and it is the safest method of containing them. The *safest* method would be in the house or in an escape proof enclosure. Since this dog chewed up a plastic crate; a wire one would have worked. But, you are probably going to tell me that he would tear up the house. Thus -- this means he was not trained properly. A perimeter fence is reccomended as the chain will not keep animals out of your yard. I disagree that chaining makes dogs mean as long as they are properly socialized and are exercised the will be fine( they may have some pent up energy but no more than they would if they had been kept in a kennel) I have seen tons and tons of chained Apbt's and none of which were unhappy or agressive. This may by YOUR opinion, but it is FACT that a dog's fight or flight drive kicks in when they are approached by either a person or another animal when they are on a chain. They have no place to go --- thus, they can't FLEE, so they must fight. When my dogs are chained they are quiet when they are kenneld they bark non-stop so they must prefer the chain.I think it is cruel to keep a dog in a shipping crate all day but most humaniacs agree with that. If your dog is properly *crate* trained, they are quiet. The crate becomes their den and they are SAFE and secure. He was now 6 months old he was contained in a six foot fence during the day when the owners were away at work this particular day the naighbors dog was running loose and tormenting TAZ through the fence TAZ jumped the fencew and grabbed that dog the owner called Animal control and they took TAZ away .The owners of TAZ went to the Shelter paid the $300 fine took TAZ home and put him on a Ten foot chain they walked him every day aftyer they came home and TAZ was very happy. Why do people think that a dog is *happier* pulling around a log chain, a 10 foot one at that, as opposed to being loose in a yard! He is only 6 months old and pulling around a 10 foot log chain. The nosy neighbor took it upon herself to snoop and saw that he was tethered and she too thaught it was cruel she called animal control who then made The owners of TAZ release him from the chain. KNOWING that he could get out, why didn't the owners take messures to ensure that the dog did not escape? A wire crate is much better than getting your head bashed in! The next day TAZ got outand they came home to find him bloody and swollen with blood coming out of his eyes The neighbor(another one)Confronted them and said that he had done that to TAZ. They immediately asked him if he was OK and if TAZ had hurt his dog he said that he was fine and so was his dog and that TAZ had not bitten either one of them he had just seen TAZ coming picked up a brick and started bashing his head in. But the Animal control came again and TAZ was let off again and he got out again and he did it again. I'm trying to make sense of all of this -- they KNEW he would get out! Again, a wire crate (they DO make them, I know many people with APBT's that use them) would still be better than knowing putting the dog in harms way. Well Poor TAZ had one last chance and since that neighbor lady would not stay out of their buisness they decided to get a 8 foot wooden fence put up in addition to the old one(they didn't want TAZ cooped up in a 6by8 run all day). Oh, let me say this as sarcastically as I can: oh, they didn't want him cooped up in a 6 X 8 run, but are more than happy to chain him up with a heavy log chain ALL THE TIME. OR, knowing that he escapes, does NOTHING to contain him......AGAIN, a wire crate, they make them in LARGE and EX-LARGE would be better than him getting his head bashed. He didn't get out and all was well. Until the Monsoons came in the middle of the night(I now they could have kept him inside but they didn't)It knocked down the fence that they had built and TAZ was loose the woke up to the sound of dogs fighting they knew that this was TAZ's last time and they ran outside to find people beating him with a bat while he had another dog in his mouth(this is rediculouse as those of us with Apbt's know this won't work) anyways TAZ got put to sleep that night and he was only 1 year old . I know that there are things that the owner could have done to prevent this but the neighbor was the main problem and guess whose poor doggy TAZ had gotten a hold of that night? NO, the neighbor was NOT the main problem. The irresponsible owners are to blame. There are so many other methods to contain a dog other than CHAINING, if it's against the city ordinances. Your right that nosy neighbors dog .I really hope she learned her lesson. My point is please do not outlaw the chaining of dogs but push for more regulations such as the length of the chain etc. The length of the chain. Yep, a dog is going to be very happy on a 10 foot chain as opposed to a 6 foot chain. He just can't wait to lose his freedom in a yard --- that could be securely fenced....yes, that was sarcastic. Not meant to flame you, but ignorance is no excuse on the dog owners part. There are other methods and it was clearly THEIR fault the dog was put to sleep. The dog was merely being a dog. Quote
Hobbit Posted January 22, 2003 Posted January 22, 2003 A synthetic type of premarin is being tested. If it acts like the researchers think it will......there will no longer be a need for mares or their hormones. Quote
wildbunch Posted January 22, 2003 Posted January 22, 2003 Hobbit, Do you have a link? Would love to read up on that, hadn't heard. Quote
Hobbit Posted January 22, 2003 Posted January 22, 2003 I am trying to find it. I saw it on the 20/20, 48 hrs, Date-Line --- one of those type news stories. Give me a few minutes and I'll try to find it. Quote
Poofy Posted January 22, 2003 Posted January 22, 2003 Personally I am grateful for the advances in medicine thanks to animal testing... I know its never pretty...but without it...many people would not be alive, many treatments not available, and most importantly, many treatments and cures for disease in my pets would also not be available. Quote
wildbunch Posted January 22, 2003 Posted January 22, 2003 No Comment Poofy. Can't say what I'm thinking Quote
Hobbit Posted January 22, 2003 Posted January 22, 2003 http://www.ahdf.org/premarin.html This is not the link, but interesting reading. This is not it either, but does talk about a generic premarin --- http://www.navs.org/news/story_display.cfm?SectionID=News&NewsID=8 I'll keep looking for it. Quote
Bensam Posted January 22, 2003 Posted January 22, 2003 Now I have Ben sleeping next to me, it's going to take for ever to catch up. Hobbit, I'm sure I read about a generic Premarin on the web too. As for chaining a dog, first up, it's something I would not do, but in Aussie there is a 'Code of Practice' for the tethering of animals, this includes a section on dogs, so guess this is better than nothing. Quote
Guest Anonymous Posted January 22, 2003 Posted January 22, 2003 I use to tie up Hazel with a chain, sad to say :( , nothing else could keep her, she was too uncontroable to be inside, or run loose in the yard. I don't deny that keeping her on a chain was wrong, but at the time I was ignorent, didn't know it could harm her in any way, and if anything, it probably did make her aggression worse (she was aggressive BEFORE being on the chain, so that's not what caused it). Her chain was long enough, and did have a swivle on both ends so it wouldn't get tangled, but I still feel HORIBLE about it. I'm so glad that the training has paid off, and that while she's still not perfect in the house, she can stay in the house and follow most rules, MOST of the time! :D Once I found out how bad Chains were, and that it was actually causing her aggression to get worse (when the dog lunges at something, it gets snapped back, they then relate this pain to whatever their focusing on, thus becoming more aggressive), I got her off it ASAP. She has her crate even inside now, for those times when say like when we have company over. Hazel only gets tied up now when there is absolutly NO other choise, since she wont' stay in the yard, is aggressive, can't stay in her crate or the house un atended for hours, so there is nothing else we can really do. But I always make sure she's not on there for longer then needed, and that she is warm enough, has food, and lots of water. This has only had to happen once since she's been inside really, and that was when my mom went out of town so there was no one else to watch her while she was in the house. In the summer, once the ground has thawed, we are going to build her a good pet, one which she can't (lets cross our fingers now) get out of, since all her other ones she has. Once we have this built, I am hidding her chain, so it will never be used again!! I'm posting this as a warning to any dog owners out there who may chain their dog. PLEASE do some research, I had no idea it was wrong at all, seeing as she seemed like a happy normal dog, wasn't treding through her own fecies or anything like that, and always had water, but it's STILL wrong to do, and can STILL cause problems. Once you start searching and finding out the truth, it's really unbelieveable. I feel so bad now, and try everything to make Hazel's life more enjoyable now! Even if it means hours out of my day, it's WELL worth it. Quote
eggrolyn1223 Posted January 22, 2003 Posted January 22, 2003 Bonsai Kittens:I was shocked when I heard about the Bonsai kittens :o Thanks Cheetah, for clearing that up :) ...I guess I'm too stupid to tell the difference between real life and a joke.. :oops: Premarin:UGH!!Poor horses!!I know I'm going to have a few horses when I live on my own...They will all be rescues! :evil: Greyhound Racing:I never knew there were still greyhound races nowadays...and 3 tracks in my own state! :x Wild Animals as pets:I know I will never have a wild animal as a pet..I think it's just too cruel...to make a wild animal live with humans...unless it was a little baby...then I'd wait until it grew up and then let it go...or send them to facilities... Quote
Guest Anonymous Posted January 22, 2003 Posted January 22, 2003 First off they didn't want him to be put in a wire crate because their would have been no one to let him out if it all day long 8-10 hours so he more than likely would have been sitting in it all day(yeah he would really have loved that).Also he if he was loose in the house he would again have had the same problem(no one to let him out) and if the would have put a doggie door then he would have of course jumped the fence.. I was not reffering to them Barking when crated They bark when in a kennel or DOGRUN! He was much happier on the chain bacuase if had had free run of the yard then he would have found a way out to grab the other dog. But whatever.In my opinion those in favor of banning tying out dogs are just looking for an excuse to kill a lot of Apbt's . I never said a logging chai Why is it not cruel to you to keep a dog in a kennel in a humane society or rescue for 6-9 months in a 6by8 cell but it is cruel to keep them on a 10 foot chain which would give them 20 feet in to play in. In the kennel ,they could not run away and they would have to fight as well right? Also I have seen many many agressive dogs(of different breeds) that were kept on a chain BECAUSE the were mean . It did not make them mean. Also lots of kennel dogs get kennels shy I am not worried about it because those of us who chain will chain regardless of the laws even if that means moving to another country. Who ever said my dogs could not be left alone in the house?They cannot be left alone together because they are Apbts' No Apbt should be left alone unsurpervised with any other animals. Someone had frais on their shirt somewhere it went something like this "Those who know ,Can't explain Those who don't can't understand" You are the kind of person that says"It is all in how you raise them" Or "pitbulls will be fine at dog parks" Or lets "let all animals run loose throughout the neigborhood because it is cruel to confine them"You probably think the Iditarod is cruel(Even though the dogs love it)Or weight pulling,Or maybe you think it is cruel to ride a horse because maybe the horse will have back problems later.You probably also advocate not vaccinating puppies and taking them to parks even though un vaccinated. You would probably go to a cockfighting farm(or whatever you call it) and let all those fighting cocks off of their tie outs you would not be able to comprehend that by doing that they will al start mass fighting and killing each other and you alone will be responsible for hte massacre of hundreds of chickens. :agrue: Anyways Hummaniacs should be outlawed or :evil: :grab: Quote
Carolk9s Posted January 22, 2003 Posted January 22, 2003 I presume this is directed at Hobbit? You aare the kind of person that says"It is all in how you raise them" Or "pitbulls will be fine at dog parks" Or lets "let all animals run loose throughout the neigborhood because it is cruel to confine them"You probably think the Iditarod is cruel(Even though the dogs love it)Or weight pulling,Or maybe you think it is cruel to ride a horse because maybe the horse will have back problems later.You probably also advocate not vaccinating puppies and taking them to parks even though un vaccinated. You would probably go to a cockfighting farm(or whatever you call it) and let all those fighting cocks off of their tie outs you would not be able to comprehend that by doing that they will al start mass fighting and killing each other and you alone will be responsible for hte massacre of hundreds of chickens. Anyways Hummaniacs should be outlawed or Oh your poor foolish misguided person! You will learn just how wrong you are. Perhaps you should take on the mission of reading more of Hobbit's posts to get an actual feel of where he is coming from. You say chaining a dog does NOT increase their aggression, but each time poor Taz did get out, he attacked another dog. While he was still a pup. Plus, the net result of all this is that this dog is dead at age 1. While the desire may have been there, its obvious to me that his owners did NOT do right by him, they failed him. Quote
Guest Anonymous Posted January 22, 2003 Posted January 22, 2003 Being the "breeder" you SHOULD have stepped in and took this pup back, refunded their money. If you researched and knew there was a no chain law in their area you should have started kennel (crate) training the puppy from the beginning or not sold the puppy. People have to make adjustments for a puppy, if that means someone coming home at lunch to let the puppy out then that is what it takes. If you cannot make those adjustments then maybe you do not need a puppy. To me these are things a "breeder" should ask when finding homes for a puppy. Quote
Guest Anonymous Posted January 22, 2003 Posted January 22, 2003 Take anything from HSUS with a grain of salt. They are an animal rights organization and have a very one sided view of everything. They are not a humane society - I call them the sneaky PETA since they raise money behind the guise of helping animals. They don't run any shelters. Also, a lot of the Premarin propaganda is from years ago and isn't typical of the way the farms are run now. I don't support the industry, but I've read both sides and the truth is probably somewhere in the middle. Anyway, my point is don't get all your info from AR organizations - or we will all end up like Florida with pigs in the constitution. :roll: Quote
Carolk9s Posted January 22, 2003 Posted January 22, 2003 I have to agree with Kiger regarding the HSUS and the ASPCA. Since I do not know their entire agenda, I choose to lend my support my local shelters and rescue orgs. Quote
Guest Anonymous Posted January 22, 2003 Posted January 22, 2003 The reason I sold them a puppy in the first place is that they were not working as much when I placed him with them. Other than that in my opinion then it was a good home(please note that this was the first litter I ever bred it was over 4 years ago more like 7 I have learned a lot ,I think since then) like I said I see nothing wrong with chaining the dog wether it is legal or not. I have seen people misuse the chain as a form of abandonement or neglect but this was not the case here. Some Apbt's get along most do not and if you are leaving two alone together in the house you are asking for trouble. I chain my dogs. I also kennel pregnant bitches(and keep them off of the chain). I do not chain puppies . I do use crates and I always crate them at night or in the day if the weather is extreme. I always take one with me when I go somewhere and I always keep one loose in the house I alternate which ones get to be where and which ones get to go. They all get played with daily and walked. i only have seven that is nothing compared to some who have over 20 dogs all in kennel runs. I did not take TAZ back because unfortunately they did not inform me until he was already PTS or you bet I would have went and taken him back the point was that not being able to chain him started the whole thing. I did go down there a couple of times to see him and I called every once in a while to check up on him this whole thing happened in a matter of a couple of months and they should have informed me. I will never sell them a puppy again and they do not want another dog thhey are to upset.I agree thhat if you only have one-two dogs then you should be able to keep them inside at all times but when you have several dogs of a breed that likes to fight with other animals that is asking for trouble.My dogs have never gotten loose or gotten out but if I had to take them off the chain they would find a way and then they would probably end up dead. Like I said other breeds of dogs should not be chained there is a difference. It is cruel to put giant chains around their neck or put weights on them or whatever else the idiots do but proper chaining as long as they are mentally stimulated and properly excersized is not cruel.Not all of my dogs are dog agressive but most of them are but none will back down if challenged.But enough with arguing. Quote
Guest Anonymous Posted January 22, 2003 Posted January 22, 2003 I do have to agree to a point, Almost all APBT kennels have thier dogs either tied out or in runs. YOU cant really lump them in to the same category as most dogs in MANY aspects. Particularly in the thier desire once a bully of any breed gets it in thier head to do something there really isnt anything thats going to stop them. I have seen APBT scale 8 foot fences to get to another dog. I have seen then jump right through windows and bust down doors. When you have the pound for pound most powerful dog in the canine world, you have to take extra steps and precautions to assure tht your dog CANNOT kill some dog or go for a jog through the neigborhood if they decide to. No I am not all for chaining, like some of us seem to be, Im all for training. But in the even that you cant crate your dog or you cant leave your dog inside the chain is the only realistic option, especially with an APBT. :black: Quote
Guest Anonymous Posted January 22, 2003 Posted January 22, 2003 If you want to SEE what really happens with various places and various cases of animal cruelty go to Animals Voice and take a look at some of thier galleries. I warn you guys do look if you do not really want to know. You will cry and be very upset, but for thse of you who are curious about what really goes on here and abroad i urge you to browse through the galleries. http://www.animalsvoice.com/PAGES/home.html Quote
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