Guest Anonymous Posted January 16, 2003 Posted January 16, 2003 Hi. I just purchased a yellow lab from a well-known breeder in my area, and I'm wondering what kind of guarantee I should be getting or asking for. Anybody w/experience in this field??? I would greatly appreciate the help. Sincerely, Loml15 Quote
Guest Anonymous Posted January 16, 2003 Posted January 16, 2003 If there was a guarantee offer with your lab the breeder should have given it to you when you picked up you puppy. Most reputable breeders offer a 1-2 yr. guarantee against genetic and hereditary defects. Most being the 2 yr. Most give 24-72 hrs to take your pup to the vet and be vet checked. I am sure someone has something to add. :wink: Quote
Poofy Posted January 16, 2003 Posted January 16, 2003 Many breeders, even the best, are no longer giving guarantees on the puppies they sell. Reason is, that you cannot control what people do with and to the puppies and some choices, that new owners make, are detrimental to the health of the puppy. When those choices affect the health of the puppy, they will often try to "cash in" on a genetic guarantee. The difficult thing about many genetic diseases, is that, you cannot tell them apart from injury. A fall from a high place, dislocation of a hip from stepping into a hole, jumping out of a moving truck, can cause injury that can mirror genetic orthopedic problems, but there will be no way to prove if it was accidental or genetic. What you have to decide is what you can live with. Are you willing to simply trust the person you buy the dog from? or do you want a written guarantee? These types of details need to be worked out loooooog before you buy the puppy...if you did not do that...then its too late. Quote
Guest Anonymous Posted January 16, 2003 Posted January 16, 2003 I would never buy a dog from any breeder regardless of who they were or how well they are known unless they had at least some type of written hip/health garuntee in writing. The breeder does not need to be responsible for veterinary bills but they should give you the option of getting a replacement pup from a different sire and dam or a partial refund of the purchase price, either way you should be allowed to keep your current puppy as long as it gets spayed or neutered. But if they did not give you any garuntee then chances are there are none and it is to late as stated above there is nothing you can do now.Also be skeptical of breeders who don't want you to make your OFA results public they are trying to hide it from the other unsuspecting buyers in case they do end up with dysplasia.Anyone who is breeding their dogs should stand behind them 100%(excluding parvo etc.. which could be due to the new owners negligence)They should not however be held responsible for any vbet bills as "suprises" do come up every once in a while and they would have no way of knowing. :bday: Quote
Carolk9s Posted January 16, 2003 Posted January 16, 2003 I disagree that 'many' breeders are not offering ANY type of health guarantee. Perhaps those many are not reputable to begin with. I would not buy from a breeder who did not offer SOME sort of health guarantee against genetic disease that the particular breed is known to present. Any 'breeder' who in effect says your pup is 'as is' is a breeder I do not want to support. Would I take the breeder up on a guarantee? Depends but most likely no. Lets face it, some genetic problems are not going to manifest until the dog is a couple of years old or more. Would I take that dog back to the breeder? Heck no. I'd be far too attached from the first time the puppy licked my face. :) Now perhaps if I brought the pup home, within two to three days pup is at the vets battling parvo? Might be a different situation. I do believe I would at minimum want the breeder to pay the vet costs. Dogs are not things like cars that come with a warranty but they are an investment of your love, time, dedication and expected future together. Quote
Hobbit Posted January 17, 2003 Posted January 17, 2003 Our pups are guaranteed for life against any genetic defect. Personally, I want to know if something genetic shows up in the years to come --- so I can act accordingly. They are also guaranteed for life, if a person wants to return him. I don't refund their money, because it would be like "renting" a dog and we don't rent dogs........or pigs. :wink: Quote
Guest Anonymous Posted January 17, 2003 Posted January 17, 2003 I firmly agree that a breeder should offer a long term non loophole guarantee. To me this means money back and for at least 2 years. Depending on the breed. With Labs you have a very high incidence level of HD and PRA. I would only buy from a breeder that shows you the OFA numbers and the CERF form for both parents. And by form I mean the form that is filled out by the ACVO during the exam. I guarantee for 5 years. In my breed (Mini Schnauzers) we have a late onset PRA. I want to know what I am producing. i want them to approach me. Now are certain things caused by environment. yes. Are certain things that have a genetic predisposition brought on by poor care, ie getting fat, etc. Yes. Fat doesn't cause HD for example. the dog carried the genes for HD to begin with. Diabetes due to being overweight, I would not refund money to. Depends on the issue. I would take each on a case by case basis. I have a degree of trust with my puppy buyers otherwise I would never have let them have one to begin with. I trust they will not try to screw me. I haven't been screwed yet. Quote
Poofy Posted January 17, 2003 Posted January 17, 2003 You said: "Are certain things that have a genetic predisposition brought on by poor care, ie getting fat, etc. Yes. Fat doesn't cause HD for example. the dog carried the genes for HD to begin with. Diabetes due to being overweight, I would not refund money to." Sorry, you can't prove if the weight caused the problem or the problem caused the weight. One of the symptoms of Diabetes is weight gain. Also with HD, while it is not caused by excessive weight, it can be exacerbated by it. A dog that could have lived a long normal life, never showing symptoms, can be crippled by an owner who allows them to gain undue weight or even over exercises it, forcing it to jump at an early age, or pull weights etc. Dogs who may never have developed HD can show changed in the hip joint due to injury, dislocation, etc. Same with ED. What about OCD? Was it a fall that damaged the blood vessels and caused the cartliage to die then break off or was it genetic? There is no way to know. There are a myrid of things. We do a 5 year health guarantee because of the heart and eye problems in our breed (we also do clearances and many don't). Yet I have NEVER purchased a dog, that was guaranteed. Yes I have seen a couple of breeders who had them, but the guarantees were either useless (and made me more nervous then those wihout) or they were so full of loop holes they were a joke. I have purchased dogs, after I do my research, look at pedigrees, talk to people who have bought from them...I have been happy so far. Also, I can see breeders guaranteeing dogs, that are destined to be shown. But, I disagree that it is the norm, for breeders to guarantee pets. "Now are certain things caused by environment. yes. Are certain things that have a genetic predisposition brought on by poor care, ie getting fat, etc." Unless there are genetic markers, you can never 100% prove, if the affliction was environment? Or genetic. And don't think that that could not be argued in a small claims court. If you sold a dog who died of hemagosarcoma, a "geneticly predispositioned" type of cancer...was the dog truly genetically predispositioned? or was it the fact that the dog drank out of a contaminated creek every day that recieved runoff from the local power plant? If an owner fed poorly or too much, in the dog's early life, it could cause bone deformaties...that you will never know...were they genetic? was the dog predispositioned? or was it neglegence. I always encourage pet buyers to look for a breeder who will offer a guarantee...but the fact is, some of the best ones will not. They have been burned and learned a lesson. People who are desperate, angry or heartbroken, over an ill pet, will throw trust right out the window...pain causes irrational thought. Quote
Guest Anonymous Posted January 17, 2003 Posted January 17, 2003 I am agreeing with you poofy. My health guarantee is for genetic things, not for environmental. Things that can be proven to be genetic. If there was a question, well then it would not apply. And I am saying the exact same thing you are about HD. if the owner hadn't exacerbated it with environmental influences, than the symptoms of HD would not have appeared but the dog is none the less affected. Quote
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