Biting breeds?

[yellowlabsrule]

Probably most of you know that I've been considering getting a Dalmatian. I was talking to some friends and they told me that Dalmatians are biters! They told me they knew someone who was in the insurance business and they wouldn't insure your house if you got a Dalmatian! :o I never heard anything about them being that prone to bite people. I mean I heard of them being reserved with strangers, but they made it sound like they just flat out bite um! :o :o Everyone I've met when I say Dalmatian they immediately say oh no! :mad: They say they're hyper and crazy and just plain horrible! I've done lots and lots of studying about them and I think they are the perfect dog for me, but everyone is saying NO! I'm hoping to hang out with some so I can see they're temperament for myself, because that's the one thing I haven't really done is been with that many. PLEASE HELP! I would appreciate all ideas you have about them, good, bad or ugly.

[yellowlabsrule]

Here's something I found on the internet about biting dogs.

DOES YOUR DOG BITE?

BY

TOMMY DWYER

There has always been some list produced by some outfit, which gives the amount of dog bites from each particular breed across the country. From Dalmatian to Dachshund, it tells us what dogs were doing the biting. I would use this list as a type of "barometer only" when I was the animal control officer. That and the knowledge of the breed would give me a good indication of what I was dealing with when confronting that specific dog. But hey, most of the time I would just open up the car door and let my little furry brothers hop right in. The list as a whole had no moral value only because the dog that collected the most bites would never give up his crown.

Now I agree that there is a problem with some breeds being breed trained and handed over to someone who couldn’t manage the little misers. And because of the owner’s ignorance, some child has to pay the price only because their neighbor was determined to show the world his prize " guardian ". But the problem is not the dog.

The problem stems from the increased numbers of the same breeds, which are far greater today than there was, say, 20 years ago. And now certain cities, and even some states are thinking of either eliminating the dangerous dogs from their town, or even worse, calling for the expulsion of these breeds altogether. In fact, such legislation could indeed decrease the number of dog bites for that specific breed. But by no means will it fix the problem in the long run. Why, well, lets read on.

We can begin with the breed itself. Getting rid of a Pit Bull Terrier or Chow is not going to stop that owner from getting the Akita or Belgian Tervuren? They are not on the list as far as I know, but will be as Pit Bull bites diminish. If not, then there is always the Dalmatian. Oh, and you thought they were O.K.? The bottom line is that for every dog your city eliminates from its borders, there will be another dog of equal stature but of different breed, ready in the wings.

To really deal with this problem for the long haul. You have to get three very important people involved. The insurance companies, your local tax collectors and possibly the Fish and Game dept. Hey, I wouldn’t laugh. The idea has merit. And besides, It’s just a beau ideal and would probably never happen. So just be patient and here me out.

The first thing is to out-law the importation of the most vicious dogs into your area. Now you are free to work on the dogs that are within your limits. This is where the insurance companies come in. Have the insurance companies increase dramatically, the premium level for home and apartments on anyone who possesses such a canine. Include a rider stating that all dog bites will be paid upon the termination of such animal. They do exist, I own one.

Were not through yet, the licensing of such animals should also be on the high end. I’m not kidding. Jack up the fee and slap a hefty fine to those dogs that disobey any such leash law. Remember, were not going after the dog. We are going after the owner. The true breeders of good quality dogs will absorb the cost and start breeding good-tempered canines. Chances are, he already has them.

Within time those dogs on the list will be rotated to accommodate the other dogs that are now at the top of the list. And wallah! All the dogs’ owners in the city will soon be walking Gerbils. Because, are you ready for this, the number one canine that has been on the best seller’s list as far as bites are concerned, is the mutt. Yup, all that work and you are not even going after the right dog.

What we really need to do is focus on why the problem even exists. And again we come back to the breeder, owner, and the responsibility of that dog. Speaking as a formar animal control officer, I can only say that the best way to control the number of bites in your area is to offer free neutering and spaying to all that want it. The population will decrease along with the number of bites. It may sound like I am stepping to the side with my answer. But less dogs, and I mean all dogs, would benefit from that program.

There will always be a need for the so-called junkyard dog. He has been breed and trained to do what he is supposed to do. Unfortunately they come in all shapes and sizes. Myself personally, I have had Rotties swim with my kids at the lake, Dobies and Shepherds perform with local police officers without flaw, and gander at all three breeds from across a posted fence. The temperament of these animals can and should be adjusted to accommodate the field that the dog is to be sold. Fixing the temperament should be left to the responsible breeder. Example, sure.

The Great Dane is a magnificent creation. Unfortunately, they were rarely allowed to enter the show ring until the late 50`s, due to it’s highly aggressive and unpredictable nature. Overlapping animal control laws did not fix the problem. The breeders took the responsibility into their own hands, and won!

And remember, all dogs will bite. There is no exception. To eliminate dogs all together only re-inforces my belief that we have become a disposable society. Unless you happen to own a cat.

[Guest Anonymous]

Just like with so many other breeds, extreme popularity has led to overbreeding by BYB in Dals. Which has, in turn, led to a rise in temperament problems and an increase in congenital deafness (which I think are the two things to research heavily before purchase). They are a high energy breed that needs a lot of exercise, and that leads many people to deem them "hyper" when in truth they are only exhibiting a breed characteristic that was selected for. It seems to me that you are researching this breed very well (I remember another post from you on Dals), and that is so fantastic! As long as you find a good breeder, I see no reason that you shouldn't get a Dal if you think it is the breed for you. However, I have to admit that I would be very very wary if I decided to rescue a Dal.

Later,
Trinity

[yellowlabsrule]

Yeah, considering it's my first dal, and what I've heard about them, It would be best for me to get a puppy so I can bond with it, it can trust me, etc.

[alicat613]

Well you'll hear all sorts of things about any breed. Learn to judge for yourself. Look at the source.

I personally have never known a bitey Dal. I lived with one for a while and she was sweet, very good with strangers. All the ones at the dog park are nice.

I told you before, my opinions on Dals. They are an active breed and can be a little stubborn about training. They are smart and can get mischievious and upset if bored, neglected, etc.

Just do your research and make sure it's really the breed for you, learn how to find a good breeder or go through a rescue. They often know a lot about each dog and can help you find the right one for you.

[wildbunch]

Hey Yellow,

You mentioned the insurance so I did a search and found a link for you.
http://home.insurance.com/insurance_options/home/home_dog_bites.asp
They list the dog breeds that most insurance companies consider on their black lists. (Wow, glad you brought this up. Great Danes :o ) My insurance company didn't say a darn thing about Kimba being a liability when I added her to the policy.
However, I'm not sure too much stock should be put into this as I knew a woman who had a two dalmations and they were wonderful. Now one thing to be aware of are the skin disorders that are affiliated with the breed. Both her dals had serious problems with eyes and skin. (Breeders fault? don't know!) This was quite a few years back.
But she loved those dogs more than life itself. I personally don't know much about the dalmation. You might try calling some breeders or rescuers to see how they get around some of the blacklist problems.
P.S. I absolutely love your photo album, is your cow a pet? I'm a wannabe pet cow owner. (Someday!)

[eggrolyn1223]

I don't really know anything about Dals...sorry :oops:

[Poofy]

If you really want to know about the breed before you buy, then go to some dog shows, meet the people who handle them, breed them, and live with them. Watch the dogs at the set ups and ring side. You may think a puppy is better, but in reality, an older dog, who has "calmed with age" might be better for you as a first time owner of this breed. You should serisouly consider taking the time to hit the shows and talk to people who have all types of experiences with them. They are a lot of dog. That much I do know, having traveled with handlers who have them as clients... Good luck!!!! :lol:

[Guest Anonymous]

From a good breeder the worse thing your gonna have to worry about in a Dal is it getting bored. Now if your trying to save a buck and you get one from the news paper you are really playing the lotto. As a general rule Dals are actually good guard dogs going back to thier days as a carrige dog they are also high energy and have great stamina, so be sure that you can keep up, you dont want it to get restless as they are aof medium size they can be fairly destructive if given the opp. You already have the right info, get a pup for maximum bonding, socialize like crazy(a given for ANY breed), and start to think of some activities, aglility, OB trials, flyball, something along those lines or take up jogging / biking and let his/her run.

[yellowlabsrule]

Yeah, we have horses and I like to jog. I also want to do obedience, conformation, CGC, agility, and I really want a dog who wants to be with me. (which a dal does) I will have to work on my patience though. :? :lol:

P.S. I absolutely love your photo album, is your cow a pet? I'm a wannabe pet cow owner. (Someday!)

Yes, practically all of our cows are pets, and they are all named. :lol: We have 7 cows and heifers and one steer. We have one jersey cow (due in march), one beef cow (mine! due in January yeah!), and a buch of mixes. :lol: I will post more moo-moo pics today.
I am communicating with a Dalmatian breeder in Portland and I just sent her the list of QUESTIONS. WOW I feel a tiny bit sorry for her! :lol:

Here are the ones I asked her.

Do you will you have evidence of the pups BAER tests ? Do you have the results of previous litters? Will you provide me a copy of the puppy's test results?
How many of the dogs in the pedigree are you actually familiar with in respect to temperament and genetic defects?
What is the incidence of deafness, allergies, infections, thyroid dysfunction, seizures, stone formation, hip dysplasia, etc., in the pedigree?
Were there any temperament problems in the ancestry of the puppies? Have the sire and the dam been temperament tested?
How much time do you spend planning your litters and rearing the pups ?
Are the sire and dam OFA Certified? BAER tested? Do you have certificates for me to see ?
Do you offer a Health/Hearing/Temperament guarantee with your puppies?
Are you knowledgeable about Dalmatians? Can you/will you answer my special medical, food & training questions? Will you tell me when you don't know an answer? Do you have access to resources when the questions stretch beyond your knowledge?
Are you able and willing to answer my questions for the life of the dog?
Do you require a spay/neuter agreement on pets?
Will you ask me lots of questions to determine if I am, in fact, the right kind of person for a Dal; that I have the facilities to keep it safe and the finances to properly feed & vet it?
What are the most important things you are striving for in your breeding program?
Will you supply at least a 4 generation pedigree, the puppy's health record & instructions on how to properly take care of my new dog?
Will you assist me if I cannot keep the dog?

Do you think that's enough? :wink: I found them off this great website. I think they have detailed info on about every beed, breeding, more. I found it yesterday when I couldn't get to Dog-O :mad:
http://www.k9web.com/dog-faqs/breeds/

Cool I just found this at that webpage! :D
PLEASE NOTE: The www.pets4bid.com HAS BEEN SHUT DOWN. Thanks to all of you for your help and commentary, and ESPECIALLY thanks to Robert McClendon, the administrative contact (from which pets4bid subcontracted their webspace) for his responsiveness to the situation and ultimately shutting down the site.

[yellowlabsrule]

P.S. I absolutely love your photo album, is your cow a pet? I'm a wannabe pet cow owner. (Someday!)

When I got my cow, the breeder said that this cow wasn't a pet. HA! I turned her into one! I can pet her, milk her (she's a beef! :lol: ), and sometimes rider her! :o Right now she's the boss cow so she's not as nice. She thinks she's hot stuff. I put more cow pics.

Were those questions adequate???

[Guest Anonymous]

TERRIFIC questions Yellow! :D I wish more people came to me with a list of questions like that in fact.....it shows you are really doing your research!

GREAT news about the pets4bid website!

Trinity

[wildbunch]

I'm very impressed Yellow. What a great list of questions! Enough to definately scare the breeders that don't care as much. You have done your homework. When we have more acreage we would like a jersey. You know it's funny most people say a cow doesn't make a good pet, I beg to differ. I have met some wonderful cows and can't wait to bring home my own.
Have you heard about the miniature cows yet? Here's a couple of sites. I'm not sure how I feel about that yet, although they are very cute.
http://www.tomtownsend-toyland.com/toyland_farms/toyland_farms.htm
http://www.miniaturebull.com/
Still haven't decided whether we want a bull or cow. Husband wants to get a pig first, so might be awhile. :wink:

[yellowlabsrule]

I think I've found the right breeder! :D Here is how she answered to my questions. They all sound good to me, but see what you think!

Hi,
I'll try to answer your questions the best I can and certainly happy to answer any others that come up anytime.

Do you will you have evidence of the pups BAER tests ? Do you have the results of previous litters? Will you provide me a copy of the puppy's test results?
My previous litters are not related to this breeding. My hearing on previous litter have been better than average, two unis in five litters, no deaf pups. All pups will be hearing tested and a copy of the results included in the puppy packet.

How many of the dogs in the pedigree are you actually familiar with in respect to temperament and genetic defects?
I've been showing Dals since 1989 and have studied many of the lines so am familiar with most of the dogs in both pedigrees. I started doing research for this litter a year and a half ago and am still asking questions myself. This breeding has been very carefully planned and will not happen if I discover problems that I don't feel should be reproduced. I don't anticipate any at this point however.

What is the incidence of deafness, allergies, infections, thyroid dysfunction, seizures, stone formation, hip dysplasia, etc., in the pedigree?
As far as I know, there are very low incidents of all in both pedigrees, this is why I've chosen both the sire and dam for the breeding. Information will be included in the packet about care and feeding to assure the optimal health of the pups or you can look at my website, there are links there that tell about health and I will be updating and adding more when I have some time. http://www.spiritone.com/~visions/phd.html Look at the links site.

Were there any temperament problems in the ancestry of the puppies? Have the sire and the dam been temperament tested?
Yes they have and both the sire and dam have wonderful, solid temperaments. I expect very stable pups from this litter.

How much time do you spend planning your litters and rearing the pups ?
I plan to take a few weeks off when the pups are over a month old. My dogs are also only alone for a few hours a day between the proverbial "changing of the guards" so to speak, so the pups will have lots of socialization. The pups will be raised in the livingroom with lots of visitors for socialization. I plan a minimum of 8 hours a day spend on the pups. I breed rarely so will really enjoy the pups while they are here.

Are the sire and dam OFA Certified? BAER tested? Do you have certificates for me to see ?
The sire has been tested, the dam will be the end of Feb when she is old enough. OFA isn't done until 2 yrs of age.

Do you offer a Health/Hearing/Temperament guarantee with your puppies?
I wouldn't be doing the litter if I thought there were going to be problems. I stand behind my breeding always and want to know any problems that come up in the life of the pup. I still get cards and pictures from my first litter in 1990!

Are you knowledgeable about Dalmatians? Can you/will you answer my special medical, food & training questions? Will you tell me when you don't know an answer? Do you have access to resources when the questions stretch beyond your knowledge?
As I said above, I've had Dals for many years and would be happy to answer any question or refer you on to where you can find the answer. The Dalmatian community is very good to respond to request for info also.

Are you able and willing to answer my questions for the life of the dog?
Anytime! I expect communication and pictures on occasion!

Do you require a spay/neuter agreement on pets?
Yes, absolutely. My contract states a very heavy fine for not complying with this request along with rights to repossess any dog that is not in compliance with the contract. I expect the pups to have healthy, happy homes when they leave here. I've had very good success with placements of my puppies with only two exceptions. Both of those were placed in new homes with very good success.

Will you ask me lots of questions to determine if I am, in fact, the right kind of person for a Dal; that I have the facilities to keep it safe and the finances to properly feed & vet it?
Yes, I have a questionaire we will start with and it basically is an adoption process.

What are the most important things you are striving for in your breeding program?
The most important part of any breeding program is to assure healthy, good solid temperaments and stable dogs are produced. To me, these dogs are pets all of the time, while I also strive to produce beautiful show dogs (the main goal of the breeding), a quality show dog has good health, temperment and structure. One must be able to live with, not just look at a dog.

Will you supply at least a 4 generation pedigree, the puppy's health record & instructions on how to properly take care of my new dog?
Yes, a complete pedigree and health info will be included in the puppy packet.

Will you assist me if I cannot keep the dog?
My contract states the pups come back to me if you can not keep it. I want to know where my pups are their whole life so I want to be the one to replace them if needed. Of course, life has it's curves and unforseen things happen but I would hope this decision to get a pup is given with consideration that it is a 15 year investment on your part.

I hope this answers your questions, if not, feel free to send more!

[yellowlabsrule]

Oh, and here is her website.
http://www.spiritone.com/~visions/phd.html
What is planned is that Seana is going to have a litter in June.
Hopefully it works out! :D

Wildbunch,
I've never heard of miniature cattle :-? I don't think it's a breed, I think maybe these people are BYB of cows :lol: If small is what you want I'd look into the Dexter cows. Here's a pic. (sorry it's so old, but it's the only one I could find that showed how small they were)

Here's a site on them. http://www.ansi.okstate.edu/breeds/cattle/ (great site for any breeds of livestock) I would get a cow, maybe a steer, but definetely NOT a bull. Bulls are aggressive and usually not very nice. I underline usually because a woman I know rents bulls and hers are big babies. :lol: As for the pig... I LOVE pigs! They might be even more affectionate than cows. They are WONDERFUL! They're trainable, loving, pretty clean (really!), and stubborn (no more than a cow!).

Anyway...Let me know what you think about that breeder! :D

[alicat613]

Great questions Yellow! The dogs on that site look very nice. Don't know a lot about Dals though!

So, what exactly attracts you so much to this breed?

[Guest Anonymous]

Great answers she gave you Yellow.....she sounds like a good un :D I really enjoyed her website, they are some lovely Dals! I LOVED Roam! I just think liver Dal's are so beautiful and he is fine example.

Later,
Trinity

[yellowlabsrule]

Actually I found the questions off this great website. :oops:
http://www.k9web.com/dog-faqs/breeds/
Oh, well at least I found the website! :lol:

So, what exactly attracts you so much to this breed?

Really I'm not sure, but ever since the first Dal I petted I felt a heart connection. It's funny actually, because I used to think Dals were the worst breed there were. I love their personality, their looks, and them! I was drawn to them because they love horses (which we have), love exercise (like me!), will protect me if need be, want to be with their owners (unlike Winnie who would rather be by the fire than in the computer room with me! :lol: ), there's not as much competition in conformation (as a lab), they'll do agility, they love water, they'll do obedience (under protest :lol: ), they're happy, and they're like me! (I have a border collie or dal personality! :lol: )
I hope that answers your question. Oh and just to be ornery (my dal personality coming out!) what drew you to great danes?

[alicat613]

It's funny you ask...as I was reading what you liked about Dals, I noticed many I didn't and was thinking how much I prefer my Dane! :)


I like Great Danes a lot because of trainability. They don't have the drive and instinct that many breeds do. I admit that while I am fairly capable, I don't want training to be difficult! Danes are good learners, and very motivated - food, and praise. They are great in obedience, except they can be a little sassy - mine talks back to me sometimes, but it's hard not to laugh! That's the real clincher with Danes - their personality. Danes are just so funny. Everyone of them I've met or heard about has many funny quirks and habits that make them so much more lovable. They sit funny, they lean, they roo roo very cutely, they get scared of silly things. In general, they're pretty goofy dogs.

Danes are also at the middle in activity levels. Of course, it ranges from dog to dog, but Danes are generally nowhere as active as a lab. They pretty much have spurts of activity. That's great for me. I like to do a few walks a day, but no running!

They love you TONS (literally haha) but they don't always have to be right by you. I like my dogs to love me, but it's nice that they can go entertain themselves. I think it's good that Parker is not entirely dependent on me for entertainment.

They're also very clean. I swear, Parker gets mud on him and it wipes right off. They shed very little, only once or twice a year.

Good with small animals is also important. No cat eaters LOL. Most Danes don't have much of a prey drive, which is good because I do like my kitties!

And of course, their looks! I adore their size and floppy ears and big beautiful eyes and hound faces. They're the prettiest dogs to me!

[yellowlabsrule]

I like Great Danes a lot because of trainability.

I didn't know this! I saw a little boy at 4-H with a very large (I guess they all are! :lol: ) great dane. He could NOT get him to sit to save his life! He pushed on his bottom and finally layed on it and it still wouldn't sit. Then the boys dad came over to help and HE couldn't get it to sit either! :lol: It was kinda funny!

Great answers she gave you Yellow.....she sounds like a good un I really enjoyed her website, they are some lovely Dals! I LOVED Roam! I just think liver Dal's are so beautiful and he is fine example.

I'm glad you thought she was good, so did I!
Here's the pics for all you who are to lazy to go to the website. :lol:

Here's Seana, mother of my new pup (POSSIBLY!)


Romeo, the one Trinity liked. (he is a liver)


And Mickey D, the boy I like and did a drawing of.

Another of Mickey.

[yellowlabsrule]

Oh, and Seana has 7 points, I think that's pretty good for a dog under two. Don't worry they're not breeding her till april and she turns two in Feb, but do you think that's to close? She's getting her hips OFA'd as soon as she turns two.

[alicat613]

Well I did leave out a lot of negatives!
Yes, they can be stubborn. Parker always sits for me, but I could cook a roast while he does it LOL. He takes his sweet time about it!

Most Danes are easy to train, but when you get one who isn't, look out! It's tough to make a dog that big do what you want!!

Oh yeah, another negative...big dogs = big poops and lots of big poops!

[yellowlabsrule]

More good news! The parents of Seana (grandparent of my possible future puppy) are both CH! :D
CH Satin's Clown'n Around CDX - NM51477603
Conformation - Awards Processed Through 13-DEC-2002
CH
Number of Points 19
Number Major Wins 4
Number Major Judges 4
Total Number Judges 5



Obedience - Awards Processed Through 13-DEC-2002
CD
Number of Points 0
Number Different Judges 3
Number Qualifying Scores 3
Number Wins Open 0
Number Wins Utility 0
CDX
Number of Points 0
Number Different Judges 3
Number Qualifying Scores 3
Number Wins Open 0
Number Wins Utility 0


And the dam:

CH Kalon's Room To Fly - NM63836201
Conformation - Awards Processed Through 13-DEC-2002
CH
Number of Points 15
Number Major Wins 3
Number Major Judges 3
Total Number Judges 9

Sounds good to me! :D Especially the CDX and CGC! Will find out about the sire of the future puppies.

[yellowlabsrule]

Here's a pic of Seana's future boyfriend! (he is a liver)


Here's his site.
http://www.geocities.com/signaturedals/royce.html

[yellowlabsrule]

I can't get it to work! :mad: