Guest Anonymous Posted December 31, 2002 Posted December 31, 2002 I am kinda confused, Wha is the difference between her breeding these lo-whatevers and anyone else breeding anyting else. Do they not still contribute to over-population? Although we are sticking to a standard on one side of the fence, and kind of creating our own on the other. Still there is a contribution dogs and unless you are supplying a rock solid LIFETIME guarentee then your not doing anything to help the breed that you work with, instead you are just adding to the possibliity of the next batch ending up in a home that doesnt want them as they grow. The puppy contract is great but the puppy is what people want, there are few bad habits besides the occasionall accident on the floor. But as the dog grows it develops and might get more aggressive or take to chewing on the couch or get nippy and THEN people cant control itand get rid of it. Then this DOG (not puppy) is sitting in a rescue or worse yet a local humane society and over-all dogs are just harder to place and get euthanized. Thats just my 2 cents Quote
Guest Anonymous Posted December 31, 2002 Posted December 31, 2002 ROTT'N'PIT napisał(a):I am kinda confused, Wha is the difference between her breeding these lo-whatevers and anyone else breeding anyting else. Do they not still contribute to over-population? Although we are sticking to a standard on one side of the fence, and kind of creating our own on the other. Still there is a contribution dogs and unless you are supplying a rock solid LIFETIME guarentee then your not doing anything to help the breed that you work with, instead you are just adding to the possibliity of the next batch ending up in a home that doesnt want them as they grow. The puppy contract is great but the puppy is what people want, there are few bad habits besides the occasionall accident on the floor. But as the dog grows it develops and might get more aggressive or take to chewing on the couch or get nippy and THEN people cant control itand get rid of it. Then this DOG (not puppy) is sitting in a rescue or worse yet a local humane society and over-all dogs are just harder to place and get euthanized. Thats just my 2 cents I posted all this info up farther someplace but with posts being deleted and shifted yu may have missed it. my contract covers all of this no dog is ever going to end up unwanted or in rescue if I can help it all dogs no matter what age or dispositoin or health is fully returnable in fact even itf the dog is turned over to a rescue or pound I have it in my contract that I have the right to retrieve the dog in the owners name. My pups will always have a home. If one of my pups end up in rescue then I am not doing my job and its my responsibility to rectify the problem. My contract covers all of this in it including more. all dogs are sold s/n or with a strict contract for s/n. I also have it in my contract that for any reason the dog goes to the vet the owner must send me a copy of the report. I want to knkow if there is the slightest problem with my dogs. I keep in contact at all times with the people who have my dogs I must have up to date contact info , its in the contract. also if the owner gives the dog to someone else they (new owner) must agree to sighn a new contract with me the breeder. I believe I have covered all the bases in my contracts if you can think of one I may not have ask and I will let yu know if I do or I may add it! I thank you for your concern and talking inteligently with me I really apreciate that!. Donna Quote
Guest Anonymous Posted December 31, 2002 Posted December 31, 2002 Donna this question is for you and any other breeders on the forum. What happens when you get fooled? I sold one of my favorite puppies to what I thought was a great family. They had vet references, references from their former breeder, and a reference from their employer. I went to visit them at their home and they came here to visit both before the puppies were born and then several times before the pup went home. The puppy I sent home with them was my little darling, she was smaller than the rest at birth and I supplemented her every 4 hours on the hour for the first 4 weeks of her life....which as anyone knows makes you feel very close to that pup. I placed her because she wasn't what I was looking for in terms of conformation and the continuance of my lines. Sure she was placed with a spay contract and limited registration....but now I can't find these people! After I called and found the phone disconnected, I went to their home, they had moved....I even talked to their neighbors, I went to the place the woman worked, she had quit and they didn't know where she was now. The letters I have written have come back stamped "no forwarding address". USSearch cannot help because the first name she used is a nickname.....and the last name is EXTREMELY common This is a violation of my contract which clearly states that any time the owner moves I MUST be provided with a new address and phone number.....but it is kinda hard to enforce when I can't find the wankers! This has just been tearing me apart since I have no way of knowing what has happened to my little girl. I sent a copy of her microchip info, markings and pedigree to all the humane societies, shelters and the Springer Rescue.....just in case. But how do you keep from getting taken in by people who seem totally on the level? sorry this pic is so big btw Venting and Seeking Answers :x , Trinity Quote
Guest Anonymous Posted December 31, 2002 Posted December 31, 2002 Trinity napisał(a):Donna this question is for you and any other breeders on the forum. What happens when you get fooled? I sold one of my favorite ..................taken out for conc=serving space.............. Venting and Seeking Answers :x , Trinity You have a very valid point! god I love this discusion ...... I never had that problem but it is very very valid!....... well I guess I will have to include a spot on my contract to include Id info or driversliscens info. perhaps that would work??. perhaps a photocopy of the id or dl ??. Donna Quote
alicat613 Posted December 31, 2002 Posted December 31, 2002 Oh Trinity, I'm so sorry to hear about that! It's just terrible. You want to think people are good, but then...people like that. I don't have a lot of advice. I don't breed and I could never do such a thing to Parker's breeder. Although she might be happy to get rid of me LOL I ask sooo many questions. I suppose you could hire a PI and hunt them down, if you were willing to take the dog back for breach of contract and take them to court. How long has it been since they've moved? Oh, one thing that might save you some time in the future (although I know you hope never to be in a similar situation) is having the dogs registered to you as well. Parker's tattoo is registered with both my info and his breeders; if he were ever lost, both of us would be notified. Quote
Guest Anonymous Posted January 1, 2003 Posted January 1, 2003 Donna, I really like the DL idea! That is what I will include on my next contracts! Then I can hunt sorry people down if this ever happens again. It has been about 6 months now Ali. I looked into hiring a PI (crazy as it may sound to some) and just can't afford it at the moment. I am MORE than willing to take the puppy back for BOC. Storm's microchip reg has my info on it. I only do co-ownership with show prospect puppies since I hadn't saw the need previously to do it with limited reg pups on spay/neuter contracts. But get this.....she never even registered the pup! I checked with the AKC. I really don't understand that! Why pay so much for a pedigreed pup from nice lines if you aren't even gonna register it??!! I worry she bred her anyway, since you can find people who will pay for unregistered pups.....all sorts of horrible scenarios go through my head. My waiting list for pups are now convinced I am a paranoid freak....lol....but I don't care! I fully plan to beef of my scrutiny of future parents and my contracts to try my best to insure this never happens again. Later, Trinity Quote
Guest Anonymous Posted January 1, 2003 Posted January 1, 2003 I wish you luck in finding you pup yea take her back I would ! you know it is legal to put a fine (compensation) in your contract for when something like this happens? I have one. But i am definetly adding the spot for the id and DL. Quote
Bensam Posted January 1, 2003 Posted January 1, 2003 Re Min. Pin. history. This was compiled by the author from "reports from the archives of the German Pinscher-Schnauzer Klub, and from other original German sources". In 1895, the German Pinscher-Schnauzer Klub was formed, largely through the efforts of J. Berta, a well known judge of dogs in Germany. This was the man who fought hard to establish the Min Pin as we know it today and I'm think he should come back to haunt those who are wrecking the breed. As you can see this is all from the country of origin, cant do better than that. Where are the pug and peke breeders, aren't there any on this forum? Quote
Guest Anonymous Posted January 1, 2003 Posted January 1, 2003 [quote name='Bensam']Re Min. Pin. history. This was compiled by the author from "reports from the archives of the German Pinscher-Schnauzer Klub, and from other original German sources". In 1895, the German Pinscher-Schnauzer Klub was formed, largely through the efforts of J. Berta, a well known judge of dogs in Germany. This was the man who fought hard to establish the Min Pin as we know it today and I'm think he should come back to haunt those who are wrecking the breed. As you can see this is all from the country of origin, cant do better than that.? thanks for the heads up perhaps it was my source that was tainted. but now we all know. that is what comunication is all about. [quote="Where are the pug and peke breeders, aren't there any on this forum? why are you so hell bent on getting a war going?. everyone else has expressed there opinions and its all been hashed over. As a mater a fact I am a member of a large pug discusion group and believe me they had quite a bit of self controll and were and are quite civil. more so than a couple here and on the usa board. Quote
Bensam Posted January 1, 2003 Posted January 1, 2003 Hey, I'm not into starting any war :o As you might gather I'm totally against this new breed idea, that's just my opinion, but I think the people who have a particular breed generally have deeper knowledge of the background and can bring more factual details into the discussion, eg. health/temperament/etc. issues. Quote
Guest Anonymous Posted January 1, 2003 Posted January 1, 2003 [quote name='Bensam']Hey, I'm not into starting any war :o As you might gather I'm totally against this new breed idea, that's just my opinion, but I think the people who have a particular breed generally have deeper knowledge of the background and can bring more factual details into the discussion, eg. health/temperament/etc. issues. I thaught that was all hashed out in previous posts did you miss them? also the breeds website was listed on a couple of posts and all health issues are on the site. there is just too much to repost do a search of the forum above in the search slot and put in my name it will bring up all my posts and there are many you will get all your info. I think you missed some parts of the major discussions. *one note: the pug breeders and the peke breeders and those of Chins. only can give you info on their breeds not the Lo-Sze Pugg. With the amount of generations in the pedigrees they are now a breed registerd and distinct in there own way, they are no longer one or the other. Donna Quote
Bensam Posted January 1, 2003 Posted January 1, 2003 Hi again, I have been following this since the start and have looked at the site. I appreciate all you have posted but the bit I was getting at was that the breeders of the foundations of the Lo-sz Pugg often have sought out facts from way-back, eg. as in my breed, Min Pins. As a show judge I have learnt a lot about various breeds but no-one knows the background like a dedicated breeder. No hard feelings I hope, doesn't always write out how I'm thinking it. :lol: Quote
Guest Anonymous Posted January 1, 2003 Posted January 1, 2003 Bensam napisał(a):Hi again, I have been following this since the start and have looked at the site. I appreciate all you have posted but the bit I was getting at was that the breeders of the foundations of the Lo-sz Pugg often have sought out facts from way-back, eg. as in my breed, Min Pins. As a show judge I have learnt a lot about various breeds but no-one knows the background like a dedicated breeder. No hard feelings I hope, doesn't always write out how I'm thinking it. :lol: not sure which background you meen, you see the lo-sze is a re-creation of an ancient type of pug, the chinese bred them way way back do you meen then? I have lots of info on that. more than what is on Beccas history page. These type dogs did exist I have a pic from an aurthor who wrote a story about a chinese dog it is dated 1920 the dog is of lo-sze type and standing with its fromt feet on a chinese foo dog statue in a garden its a great pic. or do you meen the origional breeders of the origional lo-szes of the re-created breed?. If so that would be the founder Rebecca Manns. she is my mentor in the breed. I am breeding under her guidence. or do you meen the years of research that went into the creation of the recreated lo-sze's? Quote
Hobbit Posted January 1, 2003 Posted January 1, 2003 It takes years to *create* a breed, NOT something that can be done in 63 days. Quote
Guest Anonymous Posted January 1, 2003 Posted January 1, 2003 Hobbit napisał(a):It takes years to *create* a breed, NOT something that can be done in 63 days. Like I stated to someone else, you are missing many previous posts. this breed was not made in 63 days. It is several generations old. some perhaps 10 generations. please catch up. like I told the other who asked a question, go and do a search of all my posts...just type in my name in the search box. all your answers are there. Donna Quote
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