Researching Pedigrees

[Guest Anonymous]

I do border collie rescue, which by definition means I don't usually get a dog with a pedigree, but one was surrendered for placement that comes with a couple very famous names in her lineage. Does anyone know a good web resource for non-akc pedigree searches? I'm just curious about the names I don't recognize in her background.
Inga :roll:

[Hobbit]

That's interesting, could you post some of her pedigree? I have a friend that has a personal data base of pedigrees.

Go to this website and post on the Border Collie forum, there are lots of Border Collie folks there that may be able to help.

http://www.bordercollie.org/abca.html

Scroll down to "BC Boards".

[Guest Anonymous]

Thanks, Hobbit! I've been to the ABCA site before, but hadn't looked at their message boards. Looks like a great hit! I'll have fun reading and joining in. :D

You asked about Paige's Pedigree. The most famous name in Paige's Pedigree is four generations back to John Templeton's Moss I-103923. There's also Abingdon's Rojo ABC-40766 and Savage Spur ABC-74366, Kuykendall's Flame N-52537 and Queen N-54351, and Russell Drake's Lad I-139419.

I worked Paige on sheep again today, and it's fabulous to watch her blossom! Poor thing was put on cattle as a puppy by a guy who openly admits he had no idea how to train her and didn't want to bother to learn (she's a BC, she should just "know" :x ). Of course he got frustrated and mad and finally called border collie rescue! At least he didn't put a bullet in her ear as many ranchers would. Paige is going to have to work through some of the bad habits and survival skills she picked up from her former owner, but I bet she'll make a sweet little trial dog! She's got loads of eye but is not sticky and tons of drive but is not manic. I'm going to really take my time to find just the right placement for this loving little girl! She'd also make an awsome agility, frisbee or flyball competitor. I used to have the fastest BC at our training facility, but Paige has extra gears my Lily doesn't even have!

Thanks again for the suggestion!

[Hobbit]

splendidbc napisał(a):

Thanks, Hobbit! I've been to the ABCA site before, but hadn't looked at their message boards. Looks like a great hit! I'll have fun reading and joining in. :D

You asked about Paige's Pedigree. The most famous name in Paige's Pedigree is four generations back to John Templeton's Moss I-103923. There's also Abingdon's Rojo ABC-40766 and Savage Spur ABC-74366, Kuykendall's Flame N-52537 and Queen N-54351, and Russell Drake's Lad I-139419.

I worked Paige on sheep again today, and it's fabulous to watch her blossom! Poor thing was put on cattle as a puppy by a guy who openly admits he had no idea how to train her and didn't want to bother to learn (she's a BC, she should just "know" :x ). Of course he got frustrated and mad and finally called border collie rescue! At least he didn't put a bullet in her ear as many ranchers would. Paige is going to have to work through some of the bad habits and survival skills she picked up from her former owner, but I bet she'll make a sweet little trial dog! She's got loads of eye but is not sticky and tons of drive but is not manic. I'm going to really take my time to find just the right placement for this loving little girl! She'd also make an awsome agility, frisbee or flyball competitor. I used to have the fastest BC at our training facility, but Paige has extra gears my Lily doesn't even have!

Thanks again for the suggestion!

ANYTHING from the Kuykendall lines have been exceptional dogs, and I mean EXCEPTIONAL at herding.

Unfortunately, that is the mental ignorance with some people when they buy herding bred dogs...."they should just know". THEY DO, but they need MANAGING, too. They DO have natural instinct to herd (some do at least, those that are selectively bred) but, DO need managing in the direction that a person wants them to do in.

With Paige's genetics, as I see them from what you have posted, I really hate to see those genetics lost to spaying (personal opinion, here). If all the good dogs are spayed...what's left? Bad ones. Bad habits can be cured, bad genetics can't. If she works like her bloodlines say she should, she can be in the top of the herding class.

Her bloodlines say she should be placed into a herding family (with experience in Border Collies) with experience in herding (working livestock, trialling...do what she was bred to do). Please take no offense at to what I am fixing to say, she needs to be a herd dog, not a sports dog. She was BRED to herd livestock and will be happy doing what her genetics will be tugging at her to do (at least after she has been healed mentally from the bad experiece with the first owner).

I am certain you can find an appropriate home for her on the ABCA BC Board.

Good luck!

[Guest Anonymous]

I agree that Paige should go to a herding situation if at all possible, and I appreciate your good thoughts. I also have some information balancing on the other side. Trial dogs often go through many, many homes in a lifetime as some trialers search for "the perfect dog." 10 - 20 homes is not uncommon. I want to be careful that Paige is not used as a commodity that way - she's too soft and affectionate to be tossed from hand to hand like that. The other thing is, if she has been too traumatized by her previous experience of herding, she may have bad habits and aversions that last a lifetime and only frustrate triallers - thereby increasing her chances of bouncing hand to hand. I will keep her and work carefully with her for a while until I can better guage how she'll come out of this. The reason that other dog sports might be an option is that she will not have been traumatized by them and can perhaps happily re-focus her drive. Not the best of all worlds, but a possible answer. Still, my fingers are crossed that she will continue to progress in herding and get over the damage done. Thanks again for your good ideas and good wishes on Paige's behalf.

[Hobbit]

splendidbc napisał(a):

I agree that Paige should go to a herding situation if at all possible, and I appreciate your good thoughts. I also have some information balancing on the other side. Trial dogs often go through many, many homes in a lifetime as some trialers search for "the perfect dog." 10 - 20 homes is not uncommon. I want to be careful that Paige is not used as a commodity that way - she's too soft and affectionate to be tossed from hand to hand like that. The other thing is, if she has been too traumatized by her previous experience of herding, she may have bad habits and aversions that last a lifetime and only frustrate triallers - thereby increasing her chances of bouncing hand to hand. I will keep her and work carefully with her for a while until I can better guage how she'll come out of this. The reason that other dog sports might be an option is that she will not have been traumatized by them and can perhaps happily re-focus her drive. Not the best of all worlds, but a possible answer. Still, my fingers are crossed that she will continue to progress in herding and get over the damage done. Thanks again for your good ideas and good wishes on Paige's behalf.

Yes, agree with you. I MUST remember that NOT all people view dogs as I do... :wink: There are some trial people who are no better than the idiots that shouldn't have dogs in the first place. That was hateful for me to say that, but it is true. There are NO perfect dogs, NO perfect trial dog, they are JUST dogs that may be better at some things than others. And just because they have a flaw here and there, doesn't give anyone the right to discard the dog and start over. I think I'm venting, here. Didn't mean to get off on that.

What ever the *DOG* is happiest doing, as long as it's constructive and not destructive ---- is the way to go.

Splen --- do stay here, too. Love talking to you and thanks for taking Paige.

[imported_Foster]

Please do as Hobbitt says and post to www.bordercollie.org. There are some very knowledgeable people on that board. I have a bc/mix but I have learned alot. Charlotte is my rescue from a border collie rescue, one that actually will take in the mixes and find them homes.

Make sure to post in the correct section though. Do not post in the general section as many non herding folks frequent that section and the actual shepherds don't get there as much.

Also, I agree that finding a herding home would be ideal and some of the folks on that board may be of help but of course you should put the stipulation that no matter she does not get shipped around to another home. And I am a doggie sports home so I can understand wanting to do doggie sports... I am even starting my own flyball team.

Good luck and thanks for being a rescuer...

[Hobbit]

Splen --- here are some interesting facts about Moss and Rojo.

[Hobbit]

Splen --- if you were closer, I guarantee Paige would have a *forever* home with us.

[Hobbit]

Splen -- who are her breeders? Sire & dam?

[Guest Anonymous]

[quote name='Hobbit']Splen --- if you were closer, I guarantee Paige would have a *forever* home with us.

Well, Hobbit, I think maybe someone needs to take a trip to Washington!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I had to fly both of mine in from WA state and it was $170.....hint hint....

[Hobbit]

I HAVE thought about that......then thought about the divorce that would occur shortly afterwards....then the custody fight over the dogs and dog-child support, then there's the visitation rights.....could get ugly.

[Guest Anonymous]

Thanks, Hobbit! I LOVED the info on Moss and photo of Rojo!!

You asked about her sire and dam. I don't recognize them or the breeders, but here's the scoop:

Sire: Mr. Domino Jack N-68872, bred by Larry Mahan, owned by Art Stoltman.
Dam: Cassie N-68029, bred by Debi Fesler, owned by Art Stoltman.

If any of this info rings a bell I'd be very curious...

Foster - I'm having trouble posting on the ABCA site - hope it gets straighted out soon as I really would love to touch base with that group.

Thanks, everyone, for being so supportive. Paige is in here right now wagging her tail and smiling her most charming smile at me! I'll find her a great home, I promise!