Heart murmur

[Hobbit]

Fellow Doggers:

Anyone have any experience with a puppy that has a heart murmur? It was heard only by the stethoscope, not seen on ultra sound. So, unknown if it's a value regurgication or aortic defect.

I have been offered a pup that has a heart murmur. The vet said that *most* outgrow this by the time they are 6 months old. He is the only pup in the litter with this murmur.

This is the bitch's second litter; first litter was clean. Sire and dam are both clean, as were the litters they were from. The grandparents were clean as were the litters they were from. So, I want to rule out inherited (haven't completely, yet). I know the lineage and are familiar with all the dogs in questions and they are all working dogs with a clean bill of health.

Now....an ethical question: would you wait to see if it corrects itself (remember *most* do) or put him to sleep?

[Horsefeathers!]

Hobbit, I would wait. If indeed most do outgrow it, then, well, those are pretty good odds. I really don't see any reason not to wait and see.

[Hobbit]

I was asked if I thought that they should put him down. My reply was, I can not see into your heart on what your feeling may be. Your decision should be yours and only yours concerning the demise of the puppy. At this point, I was offered the puppy. What a decision to make.

[Horsefeathers!]

No doubt.

Me being the touchy feely kind of soul I am, I think I would offer to take the puppy and give it that chance (only speaking for myself here... not implying what YOU should do... goes back to that whole look into your heart thing you just pointed out about the other people :wink: ). It seems like the odds are pretty good for this guy and I'm just too big a sap not to give him that chance, even if I didn't intend to keep him (though I've never successfully fostered a dog... they all stayed :-? ).

[Hobbit]

Hey, I know what you are talking about. Fostering....turns into YEARS of fostering....for the rest of the dogs life. I just can't turn on and off the love. They become a part of you. They all have different personalities and you like them, then you love them unconditionally, then it's like NO-WAY am I giving this dog up. THEN you have MANY dogs and that becomes your name "ManyDogs". :lol:

You know the Christmas story of Rudolph...this is the island of the misfit toys, for sure. :wink:

[Horsefeathers!]

Lol, funny you should mention that. We've always called our humble domain the island of misfits, thinking about the same Rudolph story.

Sooooooooo.... when do you get your new puppy? :lol:

[Guest Anonymous]

Please, please dont put puppy to sleep. This bothers me greatly. I too, was offered a puppy (1 yr. old) with a heart murmer just last week....and I have to say, I would have taken him if it wasn't for the fact that the other alternative is to stay at the kennel where he is and live a long and happy life with people who know more about this and are better equipt to deal with it than I or my family. In additon, I have 2 small children who would not take the death of a dog well if things did go that way....
:cry: HOWEVER, that being said, if they were going to put him down as the other alternative I would not have allowed that to happen and would have said "to the wind with the risks - he's mine" and taken him home with me. :2gunfire:

Remember, it is not the animal's fault that they are not born perfect...for that matter - are any of us? And additionally, I know little on the subject of heart murmers, but if there is even a remote chance he could grow out of it, shouldn't he be given that chance?

Im just saying - think about it....and whatever your decision....I wish you the best....

EBBY

[Dad4duchess]

When I was born my heart murmured

[Hobbit]

newfiemom napisał(a):

Hobbitt, I would wait to see if the pup does outgrow it. I know with newfies (who can have Sub valvular aeortic Stenosis genetic defect) that some of them outgrow it and some live very happy, long lives with it. I have only know of 2 that have died at an early age. Lineage and genetics are a funny pair. Your whole line can be clean and out of no where, you get at least one that has something. This used to drive my mom crazy. I remember one breeding where she had clean bloodlines, 6 generations back. All of the dogs were OFA Good or Excellent, Cystinuria clear and Heart normal. In one litter, she had one that was a Cystinuria carrier, one with hip dysplasia in one hip and one with SAS. Thank God it was a large litter (13) but this stuff can drive any breeder crazy!!

I know EXACTLY what you are talking about. Genetics makes me real humble sometimes. With the vast number of genes that can pair; it's a miracle that the ears are where they are supposed to be!! LOL

YES, somethings just happen. No rhyme or reason, they just happen. It still amazes me that these BYB can just throw something together and not have monstrosities!

[Hobbit]

EBBY napisał(a):

Please, please dont put puppy to sleep. This bothers me greatly. I too, was offered a puppy (1 yr. old) with a heart murmer just last week....and I have to say, I would have taken him if it wasn't for the fact that the other alternative is to stay at the kennel where he is and live a long and happy life with people who know more about this and are better equipt to deal with it than I or my family. In additon, I have 2 small children who would not take the death of a dog well if things did go that way....
:cry: HOWEVER, that being said, if they were going to put him down as the other alternative I would not have allowed that to happen and would have said "to the wind with the risks - he's mine" and taken him home with me. :2gunfire:

Remember, it is not the animal's fault that they are not born perfect...for that matter - are any of us? And additionally, I know little on the subject of heart murmers, but if there is even a remote chance he could grow out of it, shouldn't he be given that chance?

Im just saying - think about it....and whatever your decision....I wish you the best....

EBBY

It's not my decision in regards to the pup, he belongs to someone else. I think this is just something that "happened". It's not bad breeding, it's not a back yard unplanned breeding, it's just something that "happened".

Yes, I think he deserves a chance.

[Hobbit]

K napisał(a):

One of Hollywoods Pits has been diagnosed with a murmer

Have they actually said that if you don't take the dog it will be PTS or are there other options for it?

I personally would not put a dog to sleep unless it was the only option for the best interests of the dog..if he has a chance give him the chance

I received an email this morning from the owner of the pup. What ever my decision is, they are not going to put him down unless he starts having problems (not likely, hopefully no complications).

I would love to take him, but we just don't have any more room at the Island of the Misfits! :wink:

We'll see how things go --- I do own a brother and sister, to this pup, from a previous litter of last year and 1/2 (ago). That's why I'm sweeping corners looking for room for him.

Thank you for all your opinions, experience with, knowledge of, and suggestions.

[Hobbit]

Horsefeathers! napisał(a):

Lol, funny you should mention that. We've always called our humble domain the island of misfits, thinking about the same Rudolph story.

Sooooooooo.... when do you get your new puppy? :lol:

I love that show. I watch it every year, sing with the elves, and can almost say all the dialog ---- it's wonderful.

If I can find room for him, we'll take him. I've contacted several people I know would give him a good home, they are dogged-up, too.

[Guest Anonymous]

Hobbit, most vets will give you a grade on the heart murmurs detected by stethoscope. the grade usually makes a difference in regard to the quality of life the pup will have. Most heart murmurs in very young pups are outgrown. Most reputable breeders will always give these pups a chance, by either selling them at a reduced fee, that it should be spayed/neutered, and by telling prospective parents right off the bat that the dog has been diagnosed with a grade ___ heart murmur. I thought it strange that experienced, reputable breeders would ask a previous buyer from them what they should do. I don't mean this to sound nasty or question your knowledge, but I was questioning theirs.

[Hobbit]

Guest Pat napisał(a):

Hobbit, most vets will give you a grade on the heart murmurs detected by stethoscope. the grade usually makes a difference in regard to the quality of life the pup will have. Most heart murmurs in very young pups are outgrown. Most reputable breeders will always give these pups a chance, by either selling them at a reduced fee, that it should be spayed/neutered, and by telling prospective parents right off the bat that the dog has been diagnosed with a grade ___ heart murmur. I thought it strange that experienced, reputable breeders would ask a previous buyer from them what they should do. I don't mean this to sound nasty or question your knowledge, but I was questioning theirs.

Let's back up here a moment. The conversation was between friends; not business associates. I have never dealt with a heart murmur, neither have they. They were inquiring my thoughts because we have never experienced this before. I asked this forum because of the vast number of people that frequent it, in hopes someone else has had to deal with a similar problem.

I have faith in their knowledge and actions. I just don't have room for him, right now. We have one going in for orthopedic surgery next month and several other things going on. They were going to keep him (found this out after I posted), if I didn't want him. We know each others kindness for animals and how we care for them (no matter what).

It was merely a question. Sorry if I gave any indication that I was questioning their integrity, I wasn't.

[ShadyLady]

Hobbit just to jump in on the end of the post My first dog had a heart murmur and he lived to be 15 yrs old He was totally hyper a kelpie x b/collie .My horse has also been diagnosed with a heart murmur and he is 22yrs old and my mums got one too Im surrounded!! Its not slowed any of them down at all (except for the dog hes dead) :wink:

[Hobbit]

working koolie napisał(a):

Hobbit just to jump in on the end of the post My first dog had a heart murmur and he lived to be 15 yrs old He was totally hyper a kelpie x b/collie .My horse has also been diagnosed with a heart murmur and he is 22yrs old and my mums got one too Im surrounded!! Its not slowed any of them down at all (except for the dog hes dead) :wink:

It all depends on the individual. I was told I had a heart murmur when I was borned, then years later -- it magically disappeared, then this past April during an Echocardiagram --- it magically reappeared. :roll:

Thanks for the words of encourage. Probably more animals, including dogs, have a heart defect that goes un-noticed that we'd like to admit.

The pup will have all the opportunity in the world to excel in life---take one day at a time.

[Guest Anonymous]

Okay for the human heart murmur....I had one from about 5 yrs old. They found an AVM (arterial Venious malformation) in my brain at 13. This caused extra blood flow along with other things. After 2 surgeries on my head the heart murmur was gone.....
When I got pregnant it came back. So my basic idea is that when my body gets a need for extra blood flow my heart murmurs.. Maybe it cannot handle the "stress" of pumping that much.. Just my case of the disappearing and reappearing murmur... :lol:

[Guest Anonymous]

:P

[corgilady]

Schizophrenic :o

All I have is old-timers :lol:

[Hobbit]

:o :lol:


To update: the pup is well, happy and ripping around like nothing is wrong. He is living with someone else and is being looked after medically. We are just waiting to see what happens.

[Guest roo]

It was K it WAS :lol:

[Hobbit]

K .... was? STILL IS!! :lol: :lol:

[Guest Anonymous]

That is ok Corgi....I have all the timers!! :lol: