A living possesion

[Guest Anonymous]

I have 3 dogs; Cody (aussie/brittany mix 3 yrs old), Jesse (aussie 2 yrs old) and Harley (aussie/border collie mix approx 1 yr old) who I just rescued this July

My sister came to visit late this afternoon and brought her 2 dogs. She has a pug named Keyla and a peke-a-poo named Puppy.
As soon as Harley saw Puppy, he immediatley started herding Puppy. Puppy couldn't move unless and until Harley "moved" him. Harley was literaly obsessed with Puppy and would not leave Puppy's side the whole time he was here. It was really quite a site to see, LOL!

Before Harley came, Jesse always LOVED to play with puppy (Keyla always stays away from the other dogs, preferring to sit by my sister). Jesse did display some herding instinct with Puppy, but for the most part Jesse loved to just play and have fun with Puppy.

When Jesse tried to play with Puppy today Harley growled and snapped at Jesse. Not only was Puppy like a possession to Harley, he also was not going to put up with anyone getting near puppy. (Poor Jesse)

When it came time for my sister to leave, she picked up puppy, and Harley jumped on my sister and tried to get Puppy out of her arms (did not growl or snap; just tried to get Puppy with his paws).

Do I need to be concerned about Harley and Puppy? What do you make of this behavior?

[Guest Anonymous]

Hmmm

Intersting, sorry I can't help with advise.

Maybe someone out there knows about herding breeds?
It seems like there is serious herding and gaurding issues going on.

[Guest Anonymous]

Is anyone able to give me a heads up on this situation?

If this is normal behavior for herding breeds, than I probably won't worry as much. (i've only been a dog owner for three years, and have no experience with this type of behavior; Cody and Jesse never displayed such behavior).

My concern is if this is an aggressive move on Harley's part, or if this is something that will escalate, then obviously I must intervene .

Thank you in advance for any and all help on this matter !! :P

[Hobbit]

[quote name='sashagirl']Don't worry K, I know how to get Hobbit... :wink:



OH HOBBIT!!!



THAT IS WAY TOO FUNNY! I went to look at some sheep today!

[Hobbit]

Being that Harley is Aussie/Border Collie he has some serious herding instincts kicking in. He has found someone on his level to play with. I think you said before that Cody was standoffish or grouchy sometimes with Harley (am I remembering this correctly?). Harley has found someone to play with, that he can push around and MAKE play on his terms and this "play toy" is HIS, it's like a kid with a toy....mine, mine, mine -- greedy. He doesn't want to lose his playmate or have anyone take the playmate away. Puppy being smaller, he could accidently hurt her, I would watch them closely and make sure the herding doesn't get out of hand ---- like if she has enough and tries to run, he might get overly excited and "grip" her with his teeth or pounce on her.

Border Collies can be possessive and down right nasty when it comes to "their" things or the posessions of their master.

I guess the question is: do you let him play with her because he likes to (play with her) --- how does she feel about this? Is she intimadated by him? OR do you nip this behaviour in the bud?

He does need to understand that when your sis wants HER puppy back, that it's HERS for the taking and it doesn't end up in a tug-a-war (with Puppy being tugged on).

Sometimes, when we pick up one of our adult dogs, the other dogs try to take cheap shots (biting cheap shots). I think that this is because: when a dog "picks" up another dog> this is an aggressive move (for the most part) to hurt/destroy/maime etc...the dog. When we pick up one of our dogs to love on it, we kind of jostle it (looks like shaking, like a bite-shake) and to the other dogs it appears like we are being aggressive and then they think they need to also. Understand?

ON the other hand.......dogs are such opportunists that when we are in the act of picking up the dog they view this as a free-for-all to get their cheap shots in because the dog being held can't do a dang thing about it.

We also have to be very careful when we set the dog back down to avoid an all out fight. That's when the training that we spend everyday doing pays off. Sometimes, someone will take a cheap shot and bite......they are in big trouble when they do that.

Okay,......any thoughts from you guys? Any other ideas?

[Guest Anonymous]

:x I have been unable to access this site for two days! :evil:

Thanks for the response, Hobbit. You've given me some very good insight as well as some things to think about regarding this issue.

Yes, you are remembering correctly that Cody is standoffish and grouchy with Harley (Cody is fine with Jesse); but Harley plays very well with Jesse and gets along with him wonderfully. :D

My question is, how do I know when the herding gets out of hand?

When Puppy comes over and Harley herds him, Puppy will get tired of it and just lay down and not move. Puppy could lay there for a long time. When Puppy lays there, Harley will lay down with him and put his head on Puppy not letting any other dog near Puppy. Then, If Harley does get up to walk away, he constantly watches Puppy for movement. If there is movement, Harley runs over to Puppy to try to herd him, but again, Puppy will just lay down and not move. Harley has not nipped at him (yet), but will push him with his nose or paw to attempt to get Puppy to move. When Puppy has been unable to move from Harley's constant presence, Puppy will begin to bark at Harley. Harley will bark back and try to get Puppy to "move" but of course, Puppy just lays there. Is this considered getting out of hand?

Also, with the fact that Harley will not let Jesse have access to Puppy, should I remove Harley from the situation so Jesse has a chance to play?

Incidentally, Cody tolerates both Keyla and Puppy well. He only has an issue with the very pushy Harley.


Thanks!!

[Hobbit]

It's a sticky wicket, huh? I can't tell you if it's getting out of hand, because I am not there.

Our Border Collie is the chase dog --- meaning that when she comes out, all the Kelpies crouch and get ready for her to run so they can chase and work her. The BC waits for an opening and when they least expect it and takes off running --- she can fly! She takes great joy in doing this because NONE of them can keep up with her. This is different because she enjoys this and looks forward to the "chase and herd". When the Kelpies can, they "head her" and she stops. You can see her thinking .... then she'll lay down and if anyone looks away, she blasts past them! Too funny. They all want to be first in line to "catch" her.

I think he has just found someone to play with that he can dominate, instead of being the dominated one. That is up to you to give Puppy a break or let Jessie play. She is his personal "sheep".... :lol: .

[Guest Anonymous]

LOL!!! :lol: :P :lol:

I'm picturing that scene in my mind (with you dogs) and it seems so hilarious! :lol:

How many dogs do you have?

[Guest Anonymous]

You know what is funny... My blind American Cocker Spaniel does the same thing... She will "herd" smaller dogs.. I have come to the conclusion this is so she can keep up with them due to the fact she cannot she them..but then she also will play with Jac and when they play she "nips" at his heels. Maybe I have a herding Cocker.... :lol:

[Guest Anonymous]

That's a cute story!

Love it!! :P :lol:

[Hobbit]

:lol: :lol: :lol: Ol' Jac told her she was a Border Collie! Heck, she don't know --- she's blind .... it's not like she can see herself in the mirror! :wink: :wink: