Westerlea

Pyrless, both are true! Leonbergers were created using Landseer, St Bernard and Pyrenees stock. and Beaucerons do have double back dew claws. The Leronberger was made primarily for looks. Not to look intimidating at all, but to look like a lion. The original breeder wanted a dog that resembled the lion on the Imperial Coat Of Arms of the Leonberg, Germany Town Hall. Using the breeds mentioned above, he got what he was looking for. And exactly what I love! :fadein:

[b]HELP!!![/b] One of my Beaucerons has taken up a fetish for eating the hay for the horses. So far he has been fine, and it is not so much that he is eating it, but I am wndering if it is ok for him to do so? :-? I haven't actually caught him in the act of swallowing it down, just caught him with it in his mouth and stuck between his teeth. :roll:

[quote]thank god it's not at an "all time high", but actually improving. [/quote] That's good it is improving, but to my understanding the designer breeds have effected America the most. I would think it is because the breeds are easier to get there with such a diverse culture. Last time I was there, I met the rarest breed I've ever met, a Tibetan Kyi Apso. I also had the displeasure of meeting a Scnoodle breeder with low morales. Apparently, to her, selling to pet brokers was a big feat, and something to be highly proud of because the puppies reached a more numerous amount of people. :evil: :roll:

Well, I'm not much informed of the German Shepherd, but I do know that both the Sarloos and the Czech Wolfdog were created using Wolf blood and German Shepherd stock. Improvement of the German Shepherd was the idea, but with the "failure" of that came the Shiloh and King, I believe. Not to say this is certain, but this is just my opinion on how it all occured. I could be wrong. It wouldn't be the first time. :lol: The German Shepherd has changed drastically over the years, that is certain. However, what about the Bulldog? It too has changed certainly. And the Pug! Of course, now we have the Olde English Bulldogge. Though, here they are harder to keep than an English Bulldog.

I am sorry, but I have to disagree with selling service dogs. I just believe that is too much sounding like a profit maker.I understand, being a good friend to a lady who raises dogs that go on to be Service Dogs here in my country, that there is a lot of money involved in the training process sometimes, and the care of the dog, ect ect. Here, the disabled people do not get the greatest benefits. I have been to America and seen plenty of people with Service dogs, and I always ask "where did you get him/her from?" and I usually was given the reply of a Service Dog organization, and even once a person infomred me they themselves adopted the dog and trained it alone. A person trained their dog alone, in a wheelchair for an entire year, and it was one of the best service dogs i had ever seen. Maybe it was not given a large ceremony, but I certainly give the owner and her dog credit for the things they both overcame. To me, a disabled person should not [b]have[/b] to be asked for pay for a lifelong helping companion, but be given the privelege, because that's what it is. And, since most everyone else has said it, not all disabled people have the money.

I hate to bring this up, but I am wondering, when is it exactly that the cut-off date was set to where all purposefully bred mixes were to be announced as "New Breeds"? LOL It seems that so many people are infatuated with these Designer Dogs, which I am certainly against. It makes me wonder, what do people think of the Leonberger? It was afterall a cross created for looks. And what about those breeds in which have been virtually recreated? The little Lancashire Heeler is no new breed, but in the recent years the modern dog was "rebuilt" and is in every way shape and form (almost) what the original dog was. I know a few people with them, and I know the history on the original breed, and the only difference is down to the duck's guts. Appearance. That's about it. The Hovawart is also a recreation. It was recreated in the 20th century to be a carbon copy of the original, which has been dated back to the 1220's, then called the Hofwarth. The Dogo Argentino, though not a recreation, is in sense a New Breed as well, only it was bred for more than just appearance. I think our point is that some of our beloved breeds, no matter how old we want them to be, are in fact very much fresh out of the oven.

AllAmericanPup, you're from America I gather. There, I understand the overpopulation problem is at an all-time high. Four litters a year may sound loud for that area, but here we do not have such problems. Yes there are problems, but not to the extent they are in other noted countries, America probably has the worst. It's a sad sight. Our kennel only has 3 litters a year, and we do not find that to be unreputable seeing as most people here enjoy using our Beaucerons for work, and our Leonbergers for show. They also give the best names to the breed. We know plenty of kennels who only have a litter a year, if that, and we have nothing against them. Over four just seems a bit too much. Four is fine we think as long as it is within reason.

I suppose next to nobody here has either of my breeds. We breed working Beaucerons and Show Leonbergers. I've always had Beaucerons and my husband Leonbergers. We got started in the late 1970s with Beaucerons and a lot of sheep, and were unwilling to open up to the local dog breeders with their herding dogs who were so out of control, they themselves could barely catch them up to show them to us. We got into Leonbergers in 1989 with two large females who placed wellin shows. We had our first Leonberger litter in 1992 (6 puppies, evenly sexed) and they all (but 1) had successful show careers. We take our breeding seriously, and believe no breeder should produce more then a maximum of 4 litters a year, depending on the purpose of breeding, and the breed. That's just our opinion, of course not everyone agrees with that, and we don't ask them to. :) We only produce 2 litters a year, for Beaucerons. They have a nice lifespan and are generally a healthy breed. We only produce a litter of Leonbergers a year, though for such a large breed they do have good lifespans (11 years). I'll have some pictures up as soon as I get the jist of this whole forum deal. Thanks for listening to us ramble!

i like the original Cane Corso. Sotille was a bit of an antic IMO.